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Old June 12th, 2018, 02:10 PM   #121

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Originally Posted by PaulRyckier View Post
Dear Solidaire,

I haven't read the thread. Had in the time of the BBC a never ending discussion with an engineer from Thessaloníki and a certain "Alexander" from FYR/ Macedonia. You can understand that it was a never ending thread. But I read today in the paper that it was all solved...

Kind regards from Paul.
Indeed dear Paul, the post I deleted above was exactly these news about resolving the issue, but opted to post in the relevant news thread. This one aspired to focus on the historic aspect of the dispute, which hopefully will end soon.
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Old June 12th, 2018, 02:32 PM   #122

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So, basically as I understand it, and I have not scrutinized the university library adequately yet, as I am right now relying on my memory from my world history- and Balkan courses:

I understand that ancient Macedonians were Greeks, and shared the same stuff with Athens, Sparta, Theban and Corinth: Greek Gods, Oracle of Delphi, Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey, Greek Language and Greek culture. Alexander the Great conquered the whole way to India’s boarders, then he died young and stupid, and for whatever reason many people think his life was special for whatever reason I don’t grasp. His short-lived empire was carved between his 4-5-6 generals. Then the Romans conquered the whole Balkan, but Greek culture remained. In 286 Diocletian divided the Roman state in tetrarchy, and in 395 the Roman state was divided in two states for the last time. Around 650 the Byzantine Empire crumbled and lost many provinces inclusive almost the whole Balkan, and the Slavs settled down in the entire Balkan apart from some few coastal areas such of Thessalonika. In 900s Byzantine Empire (re)conquered Balkan, and filled today’s Greece with Byzantine Greeks. Then the Ottoman Yoke arrived and ruled for about 400 years before they were kicked out, and in 1800’s or so both Greeks and Slavic Macedonians(FYROM) claim heritage to Alexander the Great?

Have I understood the chronological order and events correct? – I know the responses may be filled with nationalistic remarks, so I will not trust anything until I scrutinize academic secondary sources.

Last edited by El Cid; June 12th, 2018 at 02:40 PM.
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Old June 12th, 2018, 03:35 PM   #123
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So, basically as I understand it, and I have not scrutinized the university library adequately yet, as I am right now relying on my memory from my world history- and Balkan courses:

I understand that ancient Macedonians were Greeks, and shared the same stuff with Athens, Sparta, Theban and Corinth: Greek Gods, Oracle of Delphi, Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey, Greek Language and Greek culture. Alexander the Great conquered the whole way to India’s boarders, then he died young and stupid, and for whatever reason many people think his life was special for whatever reason I don’t grasp. His short-lived empire was carved between his 4-5-6 generals. Then the Romans conquered the whole Balkan, but Greek culture remained. In 286 Diocletian divided the Roman state in tetrarchy, and in 395 the Roman state was divided in two states for the last time. Around 650 the Byzantine Empire crumbled and lost many provinces inclusive almost the whole Balkan, and the Slavs settled down in the entire Balkan apart from some few coastal areas such of Thessalonika. In 900s Byzantine Empire (re)conquered Balkan, and filled today’s Greece with Byzantine Greeks. Then the Ottoman Yoke arrived and ruled for about 400 years before they were kicked out, and in 1800’s or so both Greeks and Slavic Macedonians(FYROM) claim heritage to Alexander the Great?

Have I understood the chronological order and events correct? – I know the responses may be filled with nationalistic remarks, so I will not trust anything until I scrutinize academic secondary sources.

In most of your recall of the events you are right!
I will point out the things that I have a different opinion in the following:

1) Alexander the Great wasn't stupid at all, and his life was very special indeed!

2) The Ottoman yoke lasted for 360 years after the conquest of the last Byzantine state of Trebizond in 1461, also known as the Empire(?) of Trebizond in historical terms!

3) The Slavs did not settled in the whole Balkan peninsula; The Greeks were present in a lot more places than just Thessalonica!

4) The heritage claim of the so called "FYROM" of Slavic Macedonians who settled in a small area of ancient Macedonia around the 7th century AD, another words 1,000 years after Alexander the Great, is fairly recent and it was the most ridiculous claim one could assume!

I'll stop over here before I start criticizing presidents and prime ministers of different countries who recognized FYROM as Macedonia, including the country I live in under president Bush Jr.
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Old June 12th, 2018, 03:41 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Solidaire View Post
Deleted, wrong thread after all

Where exactly did you go?

Which thread, where?

I found it!

Last edited by Apollon; June 12th, 2018 at 05:00 PM.
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Old June 13th, 2018, 05:31 AM   #125

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Originally Posted by El Cid View Post
So, basically as I understand it, and I have not scrutinized the university library adequately yet, as I am right now relying on my memory from my world history- and Balkan courses:

I understand that ancient Macedonians were Greeks, and shared the same stuff with Athens, Sparta, Theban and Corinth: Greek Gods, Oracle of Delphi, Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey, Greek Language and Greek culture. Alexander the Great conquered the whole way to India’s boarders, then he died young and stupid, and for whatever reason many people think his life was special for whatever reason I don’t grasp. His short-lived empire was carved between his 4-5-6 generals. Then the Romans conquered the whole Balkan, but Greek culture remained. In 286 Diocletian divided the Roman state in tetrarchy, and in 395 the Roman state was divided in two states for the last time. Around 650 the Byzantine Empire crumbled and lost many provinces inclusive almost the whole Balkan, and the Slavs settled down in the entire Balkan apart from some few coastal areas such of Thessalonika. In 900s Byzantine Empire (re)conquered Balkan, and filled today’s Greece with Byzantine Greeks. Then the Ottoman Yoke arrived and ruled for about 400 years before they were kicked out, and in 1800’s or so both Greeks and Slavic Macedonians(FYROM) claim heritage to Alexander the Great?

Have I understood the chronological order and events correct? – I know the responses may be filled with nationalistic remarks, so I will not trust anything until I scrutinize academic secondary sources.
The ancient heritage has not became a significant factor in construction of (Slavic) Macedonian identity until the 1970s. The Constitution of 1974 was the first document to promote the importance of Macedonian heritage.
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Old July 11th, 2018, 12:54 PM   #126
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The ancient heritage has not became a significant factor in construction of (Slavic) Macedonian identity until the 1970s. The Constitution of 1974 was the first document to promote the importance of Macedonian heritage.
I agree with you!
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