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Old January 12th, 2018, 02:13 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by PaulRyckier View Post
"The Dutch jokes about that stupid Belgians and Belgians about those perfide "Hollanders" and stingy too..."als je niet bedrogen bent van 'n Hollander, het is dat hij het vergeten heeft" if you aren't cheated by a Dutchman, it is that he has forgotten it"
Sounds similar to a comment made to me by a swedish businessman: "if you shake hands with a dutchman, count your fingers afterwards".

On the otherhand, I saw a man in Amsterdam dropa ten euro note after paying for drinks in a bar.When I picked I up and gave it to him, he was pleased and one minute later a free drink arrived at my table, "for your honesty". My daughter lost her passport in Amsterdam but later that day, there it was at the police station. Someone had handed it it. Stereotypes are not an exact science!
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Old January 12th, 2018, 02:29 AM   #32
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Genetics is for better or worse a banned subject on this forum and I don't want to start discussing it here other than to point out that the article you refer to is dated 2017 yet the studies it cites are from 2002 and 2003. A lot has been learned since then and a lot of the assumptions use in those models, borrowed from an even earlier study in 2000, have been proven wrong. This from 2012 is about one of the assumptions made about the 'insular celtic' indicators in those studies:

"As a consequence, the existing data and tools are insufficient to make credible estimates for the age of this haplogroup, and conclusions about the timing of its origin and dispersal should be viewed with a large degree of caution."

and since then, those hypotheses have been dropped completely. Anyone writing about the subject needs to keep upto date and should never forget Barbujani's warning:

"An ad hoc mining of the historical record can lead to a spurious association of any finding in human population genetics with any historical episode that could potentially explain it."

Last edited by authun; January 12th, 2018 at 02:32 AM.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 02:58 AM   #33
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the shadow of the bishop of Liège.
I remember my father driving through Belgium in the 1960s before all the motorways existed and we were always confused by the road signs. Liège, Luik, Lüttich, all the same place. How's an englander supposed to know?
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Old January 12th, 2018, 03:02 AM   #34
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I find that we too the Belgians are closer to the French than to the Germans...even those of the North: the Flemings

Are you a beer drinker or a wine drinker?
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Old January 12th, 2018, 08:15 AM   #35

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The Dutch generally classify theirselves as Germanic. This has it roots in the Eighty Years War, when they started comparing themselves and their struggle for independence against Habsburg Spain to the Batavian tribe and its famous revolt. There was a widespread nationalist myth that the Batavians were in fact the ancestors of the Dutch. Hence, there was also the briefly existing Batavian republic during the Napoleonic period.

In the present day, Germanic is only used culturally and primarily to emphasize the difference between Dutch and German.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 10:46 AM   #36

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We are Germanic too...

But Prussian never..

En gréngen Hond an en treien Preiss gett ett nett

There is no such thing as a faithful Prussian and an green dog.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 11:03 AM   #37
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We are Germanic too...

But Prussian never..
Germanen is used in german to describe the various tribes of the migration period. Deutschen is used from roughly starting around the 10th/11th cents. The Hanseatic League is refered to by vaious names which do not include Germanen, Deutsche Hanse or Düdesche Hanse, or latin Hansa Teutonica.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 12:16 PM   #38
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I honesty don't know. My American ancestor settled in what is now Orange County, New York in 1635. His first name was "Dirk". I was always told we were Dutch, but the family name begins with "van de" not "van der". A Netherlander told me I was Flemish, not Dutch. There is now no difference in the official language, but there are obviously dialects,
"van de", "van der" and "van den" can all occur in both Dutch and Flemish family names, depending on the grammatical gender/number of the noun that follows.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 12:50 PM   #39
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Peaceful,

of course you are right...I have that many times met English people (sorry: British), French ones and German ones and indeed in my humble opinion French and Brits are more comparable in their manners and language...perhaps because of their colonial past...? And in the past there were that many contacts as the Normans and the hundred years war and all . I find that we too the Belgians are closer to the French than to the Germans...even those of the North: the Flemings

Kind regards, Paul.
Well, Paul, I think the whole Anglo-Saxon thing is overestimated; I mean it was a good 1,500 years ago.

England and Germany have developed along completely different lines for various reasons.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 01:03 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevev View Post
I honesty don't know. My American ancestor settled in what is now Orange County, New York in 1635. His first name was "Dirk". I was always told we were Dutch, but the family name begins with "van de" not "van der". A Netherlander told me I was Flemish, not Dutch. There is now no difference in the official language, but there are obviously dialects,
I searched it for you as I didn't know it myself and it is complicated. And BTW: many Protestants from the Southern Low Countries fled to the North especially to Amsterdam during the Eighty Years War (The Dutch Revolt).
Nederlandse Familienamenbank=
Normally preposition+article+ name
article corresponds with the gender of the following noun
thus Dirk van de, den if the following noun is masculine
and Dirk van der if the following noun is feminine
But many times the every day language has another gender than in the official language, hence many times feminine in the dialect and not in the official one and vice versa...
Further:
differences between Flemish and Dutch with place of residence names
van den/der/de + substantive! in the dative.
In the Netherlands the dative of the noun don't exist anymore.
But in Belgium especially in West Flanders the dative is still there.
For instance Vandenbossche (from the woods) dative: sche
I suppose Dutch will then be Vandenbos...
I said you we from the County of Flanders have another language of those from the Duchy of Brabant

Kind regards, Paul.
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