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Old January 12th, 2018, 12:13 PM   #41

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Originally Posted by authun View Post
Germanen is used in german to describe the various tribes of the migration period. Deutschen is used from roughly starting around the 10th/11th cents. The Hanseatic League is refered to by vaious names which do not include Germanen, Deutsche Hanse or Düdesche Hanse, or latin Hansa Teutonica.
Yes, all correct, but the Prussian..


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabern_Affair
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Old January 12th, 2018, 12:18 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Slak View Post
"van de", "van der" and "van den" can all occur in both Dutch and Flemish family names, depending on the grammatical gender/number of the noun that follows.
Slak,

thanks for confirming my message to Stevev.
BTW: you will see that the Dutch of the first paragraph (of the link I provided) is from the 19th century, but still easy understandable...
After WWII the Dutch spelling is changed (at the same time in The Netherlands and Belgium by, I guess, a joint language commision ). In the Fifties in my childhood I read, as many books weren't yet changed from the "oude spelling" to "nieuwe spelling), a lot of books from the library in old spelling, as "vleesch" for "vlees" and "hooren" for "horen" and that many other words...

And btw welcome to the boards to another one from the Low Countries...

Kind regards, Paul.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 12:26 PM   #43
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Genetics is for better or worse a banned subject on this forum and I don't want to start discussing it here other than to point out that the article you refer to is dated 2017 yet the studies it cites are from 2002 and 2003. A lot has been learned since then and a lot of the assumptions use in those models, borrowed from an even earlier study in 2000, have been proven wrong. This from 2012 is about one of the assumptions made about the 'insular celtic' indicators in those studies:

"As a consequence, the existing data and tools are insufficient to make credible estimates for the age of this haplogroup, and conclusions about the timing of its origin and dispersal should be viewed with a large degree of caution."

and since then, those hypotheses have been dropped completely. Anyone writing about the subject needs to keep upto date and should never forget Barbujani's warning:

"An ad hoc mining of the historical record can lead to a spurious association of any finding in human population genetics with any historical episode that could potentially explain it."
Hasn't it been proven that all Europeans are at least 80% Beaker People and any differences are cosmetic or cultural since they moved from the Caucuses?
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Old January 12th, 2018, 12:34 PM   #44
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Sounds similar to a comment made to me by a swedish businessman: "if you shake hands with a dutchman, count your fingers afterwards".

On the otherhand, I saw a man in Amsterdam dropa ten euro note after paying for drinks in a bar.When I picked I up and gave it to him, he was pleased and one minute later a free drink arrived at my table, "for your honesty". My daughter lost her passport in Amsterdam but later that day, there it was at the police station. Someone had handed it it. Stereotypes are not an exact science!


Authun,

Hope Willempie will not start with his Belgian jokes now...
And BTW I had that many encounters with the Dutch nearly everywhere in Europe and even in Marrakesh Morroco and every time that generous and friendly...with a group of Dutch to China, we the only Belgians in the group...even in Bejing at the "wall" a Dutch lady borrowed us Chinese money while we had not enough cash to buy a Chinese artifact...the same when I was in Scotland...they say the stingy Scotsmen... when we made a circuit by train and stayed in B and B...Scotsmen and women all that generous and friendly...you see stereotypes...

Kind regards from Paul.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 12:37 PM   #45
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Hope Willempie will not start with his Belgian jokes now...
I'm shortly going to Amsterdam so, if he does make jokes, I will tell him I prefer Bruges.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 12:39 PM   #46

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All countries that have the Latin alphabet.
It has words of Arabic Greek Latin haphazard origin.
What I do not understand is to say that the English language is Germanic, it has 60% Latin and 30% germanica the missing 10% can increase the Greek words Hebrew and Arabic.

Arabic words, embedded in Latin
Portuguese

Arroz - Azeite - Azulejo - Café - Banana - Cuba - Javali - Jarra - Garrafa - Laranja - Limăo - Nora - Sorvete - Tapete - Tambor - Xadrez - Xarope - Sofá.Etc. Etc.

Spanish Castilian

Arroz - Aceite - Azulejo - Café - Banana - Cuba - Jabalí - Jarra - Botella - Naranja - Limón - Nora - Helado - Alfombra - Tambor - ajedrez - Jarabe - Sofá.Etc.Etc.



English

Rice - Olive - Tile - Coffee - Banana - Cuba - Boar - Vase - Bottle - Orange - Lemon - Nora - Ice cream - Carpet - Drum - chess - Syrup - Sofa. Etc.Etc.

French

Riz - Olive - Carrelage - Café - Banane - Cuba - Sanglier - Vase - Bouteille - Orange - Citron - Nora - Glace - Tapis - Tambour - échecs - Sirop - Canapé.Etc. Etc.

Italian

Riso - Olio d'oliva - Piastrella - Caffč - Banana - Cuba - Cinghiale - Vaso - Bottiglia - Arancio - Limone - Nora - Gelato - Tappeto - Tamburro - scacchi - Sciroppo - Divano.Etc. Etc.


România

Orez - Ulei de masline - Placi - Cafea - Banana - Cuba - Boar - Vaza - Sticla - Orange - Lemon - Nora - Inghetata - Covor - Drum - șah - Sirop - Sofa.Etc. Etc.

Dutch

Rijst -olijfolie - Tegel - Koffie - Banaan - Cuba - Zwijn - Vaas - Fles - Sinaasappel - Citroen - Nora - IJs - Tapijt - trommel - schaakspel - Siroop - Sofa.Etc. Etc.

German

Reis - Olivenöl - Fliese - Kaffee - Banane - Kuba - Wildschwein - Vase - Flasche - Orange - Zitrone - Nora - Eiscreme - Teppich -Trommel - Schach - Sirup - Sofa.Etc. Etc.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 12:59 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by authun View Post
I remember my father driving through Belgium in the 1960s before all the motorways existed and we were always confused by the road signs. Ličge, Luik, Lüttich, all the same place. How's an englander supposed to know?
Authun,

yes that is typical Belgian of the Sixties......the peak of the linguistic conflict...in the meantime things are a bit settled...but this language thingie lays not that deep under the surface and can be revived for the most stupid question...and of course the populist Flemish nationalists have taken that as hobby horse...a folk, a land, a ...
Now they put on the road signs for instance overhere Rijsel (Lille) and in France, Courtrai (Kortrijk) and I suppose also with Ličge, Luik, Luttich...
Don't you have heard of Aken, Aix-la-Chapelle, Aachen .
No I prefer the name of the destination on the road sign in the original language...but even when I was on my way from Italy to the former Yugoslavia, I asked the way to Rieka because I didn't saw a road sign... everywhere Fiume...and then at least by a clever Italian and with my bit of Italian heard that Fiume was the Italian of Rieka (with he same meaning)....

Kind regards, Paul.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 01:12 PM   #48
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Are you a beer drinker or a wine drinker?
Beer drinker, but mostly water, because of my recent donor kidney...but even in the North a lot of wine drinkers, as that is a bit "chic", even for the nouveau riche...and yes even more and more resembling to our Southern brethren in Wallonia and in France...

Kind regards, Paul.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 01:21 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Gaius Julius Civilis View Post
The Dutch generally classify theirselves as Germanic. This has it roots in the Eighty Years War, when they started comparing themselves and their struggle for independence against Habsburg Spain to the Batavian tribe and its famous revolt. There was a widespread nationalist myth that the Batavians were in fact the ancestors of the Dutch. Hence, there was also the briefly existing Batavian republic during the Napoleonic period.

In the present day, Germanic is only used culturally and primarily to emphasize the difference between Dutch and German.
Yes Gaius Julius Civilis,

as they say in French "le roman national". In my childhood I learned that Clovis was our founding father (I guess because he was from Tournai), but then I learned later that the French considered "Chlodovech, Lodewijk, Ludvig, Louis" called in Latin Clovis, also as their founding father ...

Kind regards, Paul.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 01:24 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Gaius Julius Civilis View Post

In the present day, Germanic is only used culturally and primarily to emphasize the difference between Dutch and German.
Gaius that's not true look what authun says just under your message...

Kind regards, Paul.
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