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Old January 12th, 2018, 01:07 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by David Vagamundo View Post
Interesting. Any others?
we should look around the peripheries in Europe obviously, since just like muslims were not allowed to enslave other muslims, christians were not allowed to do it with other christians. so enslaving happened in areas where different religions could interact. i remember for example reading that medieval Moldova had Tatar slaves (and Gypsies in Wallachia), French and probably Spanish also had muslim slaves on galleys and so did Malta... then slavery was a flourishing business along the Habsburg-Ottoman frontier on both sides in the early modern period, especially ransom slavery, but sometimes also for domestic service. Italian merchants also followed the armies there to buy up the prisoners for their galley slavery. I don't know but i wonder for example were the pagan Baltic peoples also traded by the christians in the middle ages? i haven't read much about the history of that region. Within medieval Hungary itself slavery also flourished well until the 14th century at least, when they mostly merged into the unified serf class. (and as mentioned above there was a revival with the ransom slavery business during the above early modern period until the end of Ottoman wars.)

Last edited by Tulun; January 12th, 2018 at 01:18 PM.
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Old January 13th, 2018, 02:44 AM   #12
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Slavery and slave trade may also have been common in the most northern part of Europe, from "pagan" times, well into the "Christian era". "Viking" raids may have had much to do with slaveraids. Asloo the slavic areas south of the Baltic traded in slaves.
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Old January 13th, 2018, 06:05 AM   #13
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I just wonder if some historians has done any studies in thís msubject. Slavery and slave trade was once widespread, and I would guess it has made large changes in the "composition" of european populations, and movements of slaves for sale in foreign areaseven more so than many more known migrations.
For the viking age, see Paul Holm's The Slave Trade of Dublin

It is suggested that 75% of the icelandic female population descend from women taken from Ireland and Britain.
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Old January 13th, 2018, 06:10 AM   #14
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The Muslim took so many slaves that a special Order was founded to buy them back
Likewise the King of Mauretania sent an ambassador to Ireland to get his men back from the norse.

This from the Fragmentary Annals of Ireland referring to the Dublin Slave Trade:

The king of the Mauritanians escaped from the camp and fled in the night after his hand had been cut off. When the morning came, the Norwegians seized their weapons and readied themselves firmly and bravely for the battle. The Mauritanians, however, when they noticed that their king had departed, fled after they had been terribly slain. Thereupon the Norwegians swept across the country, and they devastated and burned the whole land. Then they brought a great host of them captive with them to Ireland, i.e. those are the black men [literally 'blue men' but with the sense 'black']. For Mauri is the same as nigri; 'Mauritania' is the same as nigritudo. Hardly one in three of the Norwegians escaped, between those who were slain, and those who drowned in the Gaditanian Straits. Now those black men remained in Ireland for a long time. Mauritania is located across from the Balearic Islands. (J. N. Radner (ed. & trans.), Fragmentary Annals of Ireland (Dublin, 1978), FA 330, pp. 120–1)
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Old January 13th, 2018, 09:59 AM   #15

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Likewise the King of Mauretania sent an ambassador to Ireland to get his men back from the norse.

This from the Fragmentary Annals of Ireland referring to the Dublin Slave Trade:

The king of the Mauritanians escaped from the camp and fled in the night after his hand had been cut off. When the morning came, the Norwegians seized their weapons and readied themselves firmly and bravely for the battle. The Mauritanians, however, when they noticed that their king had departed, fled after they had been terribly slain. Thereupon the Norwegians swept across the country, and they devastated and burned the whole land. Then they brought a great host of them captive with them to Ireland, i.e. those are the black men [literally 'blue men' but with the sense 'black']. For Mauri is the same as nigri; 'Mauritania' is the same as nigritudo. Hardly one in three of the Norwegians escaped, between those who were slain, and those who drowned in the Gaditanian Straits. Now those black men remained in Ireland for a long time. Mauritania is located across from the Balearic Islands. (J. N. Radner (ed. & trans.), Fragmentary Annals of Ireland (Dublin, 1978), FA 330, pp. 120–1)
Interesting, thank you authun.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 06:59 AM   #16

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The most important slave period in the history of Europe was that of Rome.

Millions were displaced from their homeland and resettled elsewhere. For instead, it is stimated 3 out of 7 million people in Italy (1st century BC) were slaves. It is well known Caesar enslaved 1 million people in Gaul, whatever inflated the number is, it is true other large numbers are well known: P.8 https://www.princeton.edu/~pswpc/pdf...del/050704.pdf

Click the image to open in full size.

Notice the link I posted reduce the number of slaves in Italy to 1.25 million, instead of traditional 3 million.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 07:25 AM   #17

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Shouldn't serfs be considered slaves as well?
I know very well their legal status was very different, however, based on the modern concept of personal liberties, they do resemble slavery quite a lot (especially economically).
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Old January 14th, 2018, 07:44 AM   #18

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Shouldn't serfs be considered slaves as well?
I know very well their legal status was very different, however, based on the modern concept of personal liberties, they do resemble slavery quite a lot (especially economically).
Even though I disagree, I have to point out that History Craft noticed something that most of us didn't: we are speaking about slavery without any definition of a "slave", therefore speaking about large groups that probably don't have much in common between themselves.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 07:46 AM   #19
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Shouldn't serfs be considered slaves as well?
I know very well their legal status was very different, however, based on the modern concept of personal liberties, they do resemble slavery quite a lot (especially economically).
The difference was that slaves were captives and could be bought and sold. Serfs had to work their lord's land but could work land for themselves too. Although poorly rewarded, they had some rights in land and property whereas slaves were owned. Some serfs, if they committed certain crimes, could be penally enslaved as punishment. But, looking at it from a modern perspective, it is almost slavery. It was probably still better than being the inmate of the workhouse in victorian england though. There your clothing was provided by the workhouse or union and if you ran away, you were charged with theft of the clothing.

The laws of manumission start with Withred, King of Kent.
History of manumission in Britain prior to Alfred's reign

Last edited by authun; January 14th, 2018 at 07:56 AM.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 08:03 AM   #20

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The difference was that slaves were captives and could be bought and sold. Serfs had to work their lord's land but could work land for themselves too. Although poorly rewarded, they had some rights in land and property whereas slaves were owned. Some serfs, if they committed certain crimes, could be penally enslaved as punishment. But, looking at it from a modern perspective, it is almost slavery. It was probably still better than being the inmate of the workhouse in victorian england though. There your clothing was provided by the workhouse or union and if you ran away, you were charged with theft of the clothing.

The laws of manumission start with Withred, King of Kent.
History of manumission in Britain prior to Alfred's reign
Okay so we're going by the letter when it comes to slavery and not the modern concepts.
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