Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > European History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

European History European History Forum - Western and Eastern Europe including the British Isles, Scandinavia, Russia


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old July 13th, 2018, 03:34 AM   #1
Citizen
 
Joined: Jul 2018
From: Belgium
Posts: 5
Terrorism London 1841 :


Good afternoon All…
I’m an absolute newbie here and I would like to thank you for having me.

My first question is about 1841 terrorist incidents in London and I’d like to know who they were and if they were ever caught ?
The story linking the attacks is as follows…

CSM Brice McGregor served in my Regiment the 2nd Battalion Scots Guards and he participated in the Battle for Waterloo. Following his demob, he was accepted as publican to the Brigade of Foot Guards and held the suttling house (pub) in the Horse Guards building at Whitehall.
I’m not sure if I’ll be able to upload an image of the newspaper cutting (Saturday the 4th of December 1841) so here’s a brief description:

For those who know the building with the two horse boxes used for guard duty, there’s a court yard just behind them called the ‘Tilt Yard.’ (bygone jousting)

McGregor was leaving his pub one evening when a terrorist threw an incendiary device over the railings and it grazed his head before exploding some distance away.
Other newspaper reports signal similar incidents with one exploding at the Tower of London ! (please note that the 1841 fire at the Tower was not related)

Can anyone tell me who was involved and eventually if anyone was convicted ?

Thanks in advance.
Kind ReGuards…, Iain.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Fire bomb.jpg (60.1 KB, 7 views)
Iain is offline  
Remove Ads
Old July 13th, 2018, 05:07 AM   #2
Dilettante
 
Joined: Sep 2013
From: Wirral
Posts: 4,383

It was the era of the Chartists, perhaps they had a militant wing.
GogLais is offline  
Old July 13th, 2018, 05:25 AM   #3

Tercios Espanoles's Avatar
Gonfaloniere
 
Joined: Mar 2014
From: Beneath a cold sun, a grey sun, a Heretic sun...
Posts: 6,470
Blog Entries: 1

Sounds more like a prank than an act of terrorism.
Tercios Espanoles is online now  
Old July 13th, 2018, 12:02 PM   #4

Sindane's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Aug 2013
From: Europe
Posts: 4,283

Yes would probably be 'physical force' Chartists.

This kind of thing wasn't unusual at the time, with thousands of men stockpiling arms, explosives, and so on, especially in the industrial districts.
Sindane is offline  
Old July 14th, 2018, 06:05 PM   #5
Citizen
 
Joined: Jul 2018
From: Belgium
Posts: 5

Good morning All…
Sorry for this late reply…, must check my settings.

I doubt very much if it was a prank as multiple bombs had been placed throughout London.

Taking into consideration that the Scots Guards (3rd Regiment of Foot Guards) were founded in 1642 to help calm the problems in Northern Ireland (and they’re still at it) the Republic could have been one candidate.
I’d like to research police archives but as the police as we know it today was formed in 1839; I suppose I’d have to aim at the Bow Street Runners.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bow_Street_Runners

Would it be the British Crown Court who would have their archives ?

Kind Regards…, Iain.
Iain is offline  
Old July 15th, 2018, 12:15 AM   #6
Dilettante
 
Joined: Sep 2013
From: Wirral
Posts: 4,383

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain View Post
Good morning All…
Sorry for this late reply…, must check my settings.

I doubt very much if it was a prank as multiple bombs had been placed throughout London.

Taking into consideration that the Scots Guards (3rd Regiment of Foot Guards) were founded in 1642 to help calm the problems in Northern Ireland (and they’re still at it) the Republic could have been one candidate.
I’d like to research police archives but as the police as we know it today was formed in 1839; I suppose I’d have to aim at the Bow Street Runners.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bow_Street_Runners

Would it be the British Crown Court who would have their archives ?

Kind Regards…, Iain.
Which Republic?
GogLais is offline  
Old July 15th, 2018, 12:25 AM   #7

Sindane's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Aug 2013
From: Europe
Posts: 4,283

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain View Post
Good morning All…
Sorry for this late reply…, must check my settings.

I doubt very much if it was a prank as multiple bombs had been placed throughout London.

Taking into consideration that the Scots Guards (3rd Regiment of Foot Guards) were founded in 1642 to help calm the problems in Northern Ireland (and they’re still at it) the Republic could have been one candidate.
'Northern' Ireland as such didn't exist in 1841.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain View Post
I’d like to research police archives but as the police as we know it today was formed in 1839; I suppose I’d have to aim at the Bow Street Runners.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bow_Street_Runners

Would it be the British Crown Court who would have their archives ?

Kind Regards…, Iain.
Going by the newspaper reports, the incident seems to have been dismissed by the army as not being serious. Do you know for sure if any charges were brought? If they were, they might have been dealt with at the Petty Sessions/Magistrates Court, but not all of those records survive. The 'police records' also might not have survived or are unlikely to be available. A court record might be available on the genealogy website ancestry.co.uk, but this would not tell you much anyway. Just the charges and the sentence. The newspaper reports are still probably your best resource

If this was a 'terrorist' incident or as at it would be known then 'sedition/treason', it would have been dealt with at a Crown Court. The main Crown Court for the London area was The Old Bailey and most of those records have been digitised and are available online, but I could not find any record of a court case with a MacGregor/McGregor as a witness at this date, but that is only a search on that particular website
https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/

There are a number of Chartist cases at this time on the Old Bailey website, including 'Sedition' 'Riot' 'Royal Offences' and 'Treason' and some include, illegal (military style) drilling of men, devices, 'bombs' and other weapons.
The Chartist period was mainly between 1838- 1848
Sindane is offline  
Old July 15th, 2018, 04:16 AM   #8
Citizen
 
Joined: Jul 2018
From: Belgium
Posts: 5

Good afternoon Sindane and thank you. Very interesting !

I too was wondering if the British Newspaper Archive would be the best bid. I’ll keep looking ! (That clip was from the Berkshire Chronicle)
Because they had a reporter that took an interest in the subject he may have done a follow-up.

I’m writing a film about McGregor (not the incident) and if I find nothing I’ll use the ‘Chartist’ incidents as a base for conversation. Lol…, more research !

Thank you everyone for you time and kindness.

Regards…, Iain.
Iain is offline  
Old July 15th, 2018, 04:36 AM   #9
Citizen
 
Joined: Jul 2018
From: Belgium
Posts: 5

PS... In less than 5 minutes while using the word 'Chartist,' it provided quite a few fire-bomb related pages.
Iain is offline  
Old July 15th, 2018, 05:36 AM   #10

Sindane's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Aug 2013
From: Europe
Posts: 4,283

These arms were seized from 'physical force' Chartists in Bradford in just one week (1840).

500 guns
500 pistols
10,000 ball cartridges
500 pikes
500 swords
500 daggers
Sindane is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > European History

Tags
1841, london, terrorism



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Today in Philippine History, October 18, 1841 priesteria Asian History 0 October 17th, 2011 07:27 PM
Terrorism Scamp American History 32 July 6th, 2011 07:05 AM
Islamic terrorism is different? Azita History Help 4 May 6th, 2010 03:19 PM
Terrorism Oneiromancer General History 12 March 22nd, 2010 01:45 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.