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Old August 10th, 2018, 12:50 PM   #1

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Katyn Massacre. Anti-Katyn campaign.


In september 1939, after the Riventrop – Molotov pact, the USSR invaded its share of Polska. The red army took thousands of prisoners and sent them to the east, to USSR territory. They were put in custody of the NKVD, soviet secret police. NKVD soon released those of Ukrainian and Belarusian origin. Some 40.000 thousand born in west Polska were delivered to the germans (who had previously invaded the western part), in exchange of some 13.000 eastern poles. The remaining (around 40.000) were sent to POW camps, being the larger at Kozelsk, Ostashkov and Starobelsk (don’t know if this last one was, back then, in Russia or Ukraine).But some were held in Byelorussian and Ukrainian prisons.
Most of the imprisoned poles were members of armed forces and the intellectual elite.
Once in the camps, interrogations took place to determine which could be “induced to adopt a pro soviet attitude” (according to “The Katyn controversy” by B. Fischer; which I haven’t had access to).
NKVD chief, Lavrenti Beria (Лаврентий Берия), suggested the Politburo to kill that people. Stalin, Molotov, Kalinin (the same honored by the city of Kaliningrad) and others approved it, signing the order to execute more than 25.000 poles. G. Weinberg (“A world at arms” – not that I have read it) explained it was just about weakening a possible future enemy.
Executions took place in April and May 1940.
Prisoners from Kozelsk camp were killed in Katyn (Катынь) forest. Those of the Starobelsk camp were murdered in the prison of Kharkiv (Ukraine) and the bodies were buried near the village of Piatykhatky (Ukraine). Poles in the Ostashkov camp were murdered in the prison of Kalinin (to the north of Moscow) and buried in Mednoye. Some were killed and buried in unknown places and, as far as I could find, some of these executions took place in Kurapaty (Курапаты) forest, near Minsk, in Belarus (same forest with thousands of victims of the great purge between 1937 and 1941). However, most of polish victims (if not all) passed throw Byelorussian prisoners camps in their way to their execution points.
About all of this matter, it’s easy to understand why stalin and the soviets, tried to hide it, mentioning nonsenses like “they run away to Siberia” or “they were here, in Smolensk, as construction workers and the nazis murdered them”.
Not so easy to understand is why the british and de USA governments refused to talk about it during WWII and even during the cold war. It doesn’t really sound as just wild conspiracy theory to think that Władysław Sikorski was killed (after refusing to accept the soviet explanation of the Katyn discovery).
In 1990 Gorbachev admitted the NKVD had executed those Poles and confirmed the two other burial sites in Mednoye and Piatykhatky. According to some sources, even in this public apology Gorbachev didn’t reveal the complicity of communist leaders in the Kremlin, nor the extent of the crime. From other sources, Gorbachev condemned it as another example of Stalinism. Anyway, documents were declassified (by parts).

What I really can’t understand is the whole Anti-Katyn campaign.
After the first official acknowledgment, some Russian historians and journalists, started to recall the thousands of Russian soldiers executed in Polska in post WWI, in a clear attempt to show both countries were tied in massacres. Some polish media claimed it was a way to justify stalin’s decision (according to wiki in english).
Russian historian Natalia Lebedeva, started to talk about the “Belarusian Katyn-list” such as the list of murdered poles in Russian territory, containing names of Polish citizens murdered by the NKVD on the territory of modern-day Belarus in 1940. But, in December 2011 and January 2013, Belarusian president Aleksandr Lukashenko denied that any Polish citizens were executed on the Belarusian soil, adding that Belarus was nothing more than the site of transit points of those NKVD prisoners. Anyway, in June 2012 the list appeared, with the names of 1996 Poles.
Lebedeva explains that the massacre committed by occupier Germans in march 1943, got chosen as it memorial site, the small village of Khatyn (in Belarusian and Russian: Хаты́нь) just to create confusion.
I even found a papper by a Grover Furr professor at a New Jersey University, “The ‘Official’ Version of the Katyn Massacre Disproven”, dated in august 2013 (which I did consult). This guy was born and raised in USA.
So, my question to you members is what do you think about this anti Katyn campaign?
Did I get my brains washed by USA and western Europe media, inducted to believe only the “official version”?
Is there really enough serious evidences to hold the idea that it was the nazi who killed the Poles at Katyn and other places?

ˇˇˇAguante TALLERES!!!
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Old August 10th, 2018, 02:51 PM   #2
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I'm not sure about this, but wasn't it Yeltsin who admited the USSR was behind the massacre?
I think the Soviets invited international observeres (Red Cross?) from nuetral countries to examine the site. They also flew in press from several countries. This was a real Soviet war crime, but it couldn't have been more perfect for German propaganda for just that reason.
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Old August 10th, 2018, 02:56 PM   #3
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Just checked. Gorbatsjov admited the guilt of the USSR, Yeltsin handed over the signed orders to the Polish government. I think the order signed by Beria is on Wikipedia.

Last edited by Number24; August 10th, 2018 at 02:59 PM.
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Old August 10th, 2018, 03:14 PM   #4

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Number24 View Post
Just checked. Gorbatsjov admited the guilt of the USSR, Yeltsin handed over the signed orders to the Polish government. I think the order signed by Beria is on Wikipedia.
During Germany's brief incursion into Russian territory, Germans dug up Katyn and filmed it. I've seen this newsreel footage within the last 20 yrs. It was for propaganda, of course: "look how bad the Russians are!"
Woof! I was surprised at how easy this was to find:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz3keutWNVs

There was an anecdotal discussion, maybe nothing more than a myth:
Anders: "Where are my officers?" <already knowing about Katyn>
Stalin-to-Beria: "Well, where ARE they?" <pretending ignorance>
Beria: "I think we made a big mistake."

My best friend's Polish father was in a German POW camp: they got Red Cross packages, formed their own schools. *MY* dad was in Lubyanka, then Siberia ... and just out of general mistrust of Russians, never revealed he was an officer. He used to say: "If they knew I was a Captain, I'd have gone to Katyn ... and YOU wouldn't have a father ... you'd be an orphan." Uhhhh ... I was born AFTER WW II.

Last edited by Dios; August 10th, 2018 at 03:18 PM.
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Old August 15th, 2018, 03:59 PM   #5

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Originally Posted by Dios View Post
Woof! I was surprised at how easy this was to find.
Hey D.
Don't be surprised for the easy finding.
I don't know how much Stalin and the politburo trusted Hitler and the pact. But they certainly never thought traitor nazis would come that far invading USSR territory.
If stalin had really wanted to make that people disappear, he would have taken them farther into Siberia. He would have not buried them in front of their strongests defense lines.
Katyn forest was the death place of other political victims before the killing of those polish prisoners.
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