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Old June 23rd, 2010, 10:18 AM   #1

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Do you think what kind of man was the Vlad Dracul?


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Old June 23rd, 2010, 10:31 AM   #2

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Re: Do you think what kind of man was the Vlad Dracul?


Good thread, we already spoiled the other discussion though..

I already stated my position in the different thread, you say he was mentaly ill but i say otherwise.
He was actually educated, don't forgot he spent time in Edirne, where by the way, according to wikipedia, he first witnessed the act of impelement, so its not as Perix said, that turks started the impalament after Vlad, but it is the otherwise, he seems to learned from them.
Why i say that Vlad was a good leader? First of all whats most important during his rule his nation didn't divided, you see being a ruller you have to be characteristic, you have to be in control. If your not, there are a lot of usurpers waiting behind you with a knife. Vlad choosen to rule with an iron fist, zero tolerance toward all who opposed him.
But lets look at the situation when the ottomans were comming. How many joined them? How many leaders, emperors, tsars, voivods or despots actually became there vassals? In such time im sure that in the court of Vlad there was talk about becoming a vassal to the ottomans. And if he became a vassal of the Ottomans he would have fallowed the footsteps of all leaders on the Balkans who were loyal to the ottomans but even that didn't prevent there destruction in the end and the land they owned to be taken by the ottomans.
I also want to say that there are many myths and stories revolving around that historical character.
He stood up against his enemies, whats more honorable then that?
As i said, people like Manuel II Palaiologos like a hobo was traveling all around Europe begging for help against the ottomans, but he had to search for friends just next to the borders of his "empire".

What would you do in his shoes Efendi? What? You have a small country, with Hungary waiting behind you and the growing and strong ottoman empire infront of you?
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 11:39 AM   #3

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Re: Do you think what kind of man was the Vlad Dracul?


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What would you do in his shoes Efendi? What? You have a small country, with Hungary waiting behind you and the growing and strong ottoman empire infront of you?
I certainly wouldnt start impaling people on sticks.
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 11:40 AM   #4

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Re: Do you think what kind of man was the Vlad Dracul?


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Good thread, we already spoiled the other discussion though..


I certainly wouldnt start impaling people on sticks.
Why? Many rulers did, including the ottomans were they mentaly unstable, or unmoral?
Impeling is one of the hundereds execution methods used in the middleages, beside that method Vlad used many others.
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 11:47 AM   #5

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Re: Do you think what kind of man was the Vlad Dracul?


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Why? Many rulers did, including the ottomans were they mentaly unstable, or unmoral?
Impeling is one of the hundereds execution methods used in the middleages, beside that method Vlad used many others.
I have not heard of Ottomans mass impaling people on wooden poles because of their ethnicity.


Impaling is a execution method yes , but a very nasty one.Im sure he could have sent his message if he had just killed people by the sword , instead he chose to mass impale people on poles , surely this shows some mental unstability.
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 12:13 PM   #6

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Re: Do you think what kind of man was the Vlad Dracul?


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I have not heard of Ottomans mass impaling people on wooden poles because of their ethnicity.


Impaling is a execution method yes , but a very nasty one.Im sure he could have sent his message if he had just killed people by the sword , instead he chose to mass impale people on poles , surely this shows some mental unstability.
I have doubts he killed them for there ethnicity.
His brother joined them, he may have felt about him as a traitor, he started haiting the ottomans while in Edirne, but tell me Reis, who on the Balkans (except the turks) loved the ottomans?
Ottomans may have not impelled massive amount of people at once, but they used to execute people, prisoners some times.
And as i said above, many myths are surrounding the character of Vlad.
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 12:25 PM   #7

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Re: Do you think what kind of man was the Vlad Dracul?


It sounds like Vlad was "focused" and ruthless in his fighting of the Ottoman Empire. My main exposure to him came from reading The Historian, a novel by Elizabeth Kostova which peaked my interest so that did some supplemental reading on the real historic figure.
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 12:46 PM   #8
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Re: Do you think what kind of man was the Vlad Dracul?


I don't think his famed cruelty was atypical of the times he lived in. A few decades before Timur was laying waste to Central Asia, the Ottomans were slaughtering off Christian prisoners at Nicopolis, the French were putting Soissons to the sword and the Golden Horde were burning Moscow to the ground. Compared to todays standards his actions are shockingly brutal, but back in his day they were just another in a long list of ongoing bloodshed.

He seems to have been an able military commander and ruler who was one of the select few of the Balkan princes, along with Stephen the Great and Skanderbeg, able to temporarily halt the Ottoman advance into Europe.
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 09:44 PM   #9

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Re: Do you think what kind of man was the Vlad Dracul?


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If I understand how these guys make the sick saner, I will have a reply.
I think you idealise the world image, but only when is about others than turks and otomans. I didn't see you, beeing criticist like this, with deeds of the otomans. You can't acuse Stefan, Mihai, or Mircea, by cruelty, like in the Vlad case. Anyway, they weren't perfect persons.
Did they contributed to world wellfare? Maybe no more than plenty of turk, or occidental rullers, considered heroes by their people.
Did they contributed to their country wellfare? Of course! Some, who rulled more(Stefan, Mircea) directly, the other(Mihai, Vlad), indirectly, by influecing the policies in the zone.
Did they contributed of sake of christianity, in Europe, and in the areea. A lot! And here, maybe the most important was Vlad. Without him, maybe we've had muslim neighbours at south. Of course, you, as muslim, can't agree this would been a bad thing, but is not about what me, or you think(would be debatable). Is about how they perceived then, how the policies of the areea was influenced...
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 09:47 PM   #10

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Re: Do you think what kind of man was the Vlad Dracul?


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, so its not as Perix said, that turks started the impalament after Vlad, but it is the otherwise, he seems to learned from them.
I never said that, sturm, I don't understand how you concluded about. on the contrary, my point was, as your, he learned from turks
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