Irish History - The Black and Tan Regiment - Historum

White Dog · January 30th, 2011, 05:28 AM

To whom it may concern,

I am researching The Black and Tan police regiment.

Just for a general understanding I would like to ask people's opinions.

Why did the regiment commit such atrocities in Ireland?

1. Was it because they were criminals before being hired as policemen?

2. Was it because they had been psychologically damaged in the Great War

3. Was it their experiences when they got to Ireland (guerilla warfare from the IRA etc..) that made the Black and Tans commit atrocties against civilans?

I am interested in any contribution that one might have regarding this interesting period of history.

There has been a thread on this site before addressing this period however; this post has been narrowed down targetting soley the question posed.

I would like the users of historum's opinion firstly but further, those of researchers in the field would also be beneficial if deemed relevent.

Thank you for your consideration.

White Dog

**General Michael Collins** · January 30th, 2011, 06:39 AM

Well like you say the infamous black & tans have been discussed at length, and numerous excuses made for them. I favour the idea that they were there to do that job- to terrorise the people, to frighten the people from assosiating with the Irish Republican Army. Why they were so brutal - well all three reasons above, but the reprisals and the violence stems from their instructions. The only way to crush Guerrilla Warfare is to terrorise the people. The Brits use that tactic again and again in Irish history, the hated Tans weren't the first or last examples of it. In Cork the local IRA brigade set out especially after the most vile and cruel regiment "Essex" who were responsible for the sack of Cork.

To bring it home on a personal level, to those who would defend the tans I will offer a personal story. My Grandfather's brother, my Grand uncle, was deaf and dumb from birth. He was attending a special school in Dublin, when one day a group of Tans approached him. They were asking him questions, of course he could not answer so they beat him to a pulp. He died from his injuries.

**Linschoten** · January 30th, 2011, 06:46 AM

This has been discussed in another thread, so I won't repeat myself here, but will just remark that David Leeson's dissertation on the Black and Tans can be downloaded here (though I expect you already know):
"The Black and Tans: British Police in the First Irish War, 1920-21" by David Leeson

**General Michael Collins** · January 30th, 2011, 07:11 AM

Lin, what is meant by the "First Irish War 1920-21" - The War of Independence was being fought from 1918, not to mention the 1916 rebellion which was the "Spiritual Rebirth" of the movement..

Thessalonian · January 30th, 2011, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Michael Collins

To bring it home on a personal level, to those who would defend the tans I will offer a personal story. My Grandfather's brother, my Grand uncle, was deaf and dumb from birth. He was attending a special school in Dublin, when one day a group of Tans approached him. They were asking him questions, of course he could not answer so they beat him to a pulp. He died from his injuries.

How could they be so stupid, not to realise that the man was deaf and dumb?

**General Michael Collins** · January 30th, 2011, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thessalonian

How could they be so stupid, not to realise that the man was deaf and dumb?

they didn't care...

Thessalonian · January 30th, 2011, 07:37 AM

Why were they called "Black and Tans" ?

**General Michael Collins** · January 30th, 2011, 07:40 AM

Due to a lack of army uniforms which were "Tan" in colour, some wore the black police uniform.

**Nemowork** · January 30th, 2011, 08:06 AM

Or mix and matched the two.

As for the deaf and dumb thing, its unfortunately no different on checkpoints in Gaza, Los Angeles or any other place.

Somebody gets tackled by an authority figure and they refuse to react or respond, the authority figure is in a rush, scared, too full of his own position and mistakes unable to answer for unwilling to answer and dumb for dumb insolence. After all, innocent people dont refuse to talk do they?

He starts beating on a guy to get him to talk, which he obviously cant and his mates get caught up in the mob mentality and join in. Go watch any youtube link with the words 'police beatdown' and thats in a normal city and a normal night, never mind in the middle of a confusing three way civil war.

White Dog · January 30th, 2011, 11:49 AM

Thank you for all of your replies/comments.

That is most unfortunate General, what would be the protocol for me to use this oral history in a Journal? (I am composing a Journal on the Black and Tans, sorry i failed to mention this earlier)

__________________________________________________ ______________________
Why did the regiment commit such atrocities in Ireland?

1. Was it because they were criminals before being hired as policemen?

2. Was it because they had been psychologically damaged in the Great War

3. Was it their experiences when they got to Ireland (guerilla warfare from the IRA etc..) that made the Black and Tans commit atrocties against civilans?

All educated opinions are welcome, please reference researchers if your reply is sourced from a historian.