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Old March 5th, 2011, 11:38 AM   #21

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It's sad that people today hate the British as a people for the actions of previous British Governments and ruling classes, in most cases long dead ones. It's not as though your ordinary Britain in the street today is in anyway connected with these actions. How would your colleagues feel about someone in Iraq / Afghanistan / Pakistan/ Vietnam / Korea / etc feeling the same about them as they feel about us Brits?
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Old March 5th, 2011, 11:42 AM   #22

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I wonder what the world would have been like had the Germans or Japanese attained an Empire?
Tu quoque AND strawman fallacy.

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We may not have been perfect but at least we understood the concept of fair play.


There is nothing fair about colonialism,it's about power and wealth,obtained by stealing other people's countries.The British were highly skilled in that particular criminal activity.

The hatred of the British in some former colonial countries is understandable,although hating an entire nation IS a form of bigotry.

I'm Australian by birth, Irish by ethnicity. My family is still thinking about forgiving the British for Cromwell.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 11:46 AM   #23

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There is nothing fair about colonialism,it's about power and wealth,obtained by stealing other people's countries.The British were highly skilled in that particular criminal activity.

The hatred of the British in some former colonial countries is understandable,although hating an entire nation IS a form of bigotry.

I'm Australian by birth, Irish by ethnicity. My family is still thinking about forgiving the British for Cromwell.
And you and every white citizen of Australia are beneficiaries of this 'criminal activity'
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Old March 5th, 2011, 11:49 AM   #24

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Apparently there's no evidence for Cromwell's atrocities, according to Schama anyway, btw no-one's addressed my ample evidence for the great deal of good brought by the Empire yet. I wonder what the world would have been like without it? Who would address the issue of civilisation? Would the people in former dominions still be running about and murdering their neighbours?

There's an awful lot of fair play involved in it, we did steal their resources but in exchange for bringing industry, railways, education, equality in law and parliamentary democracy. How long would it have taken these places to develop all that themselves? Bearing in mind of course that in Sri Lanka eating a poisoned chicken or putting your hand in boiling water was a trial for innocence, most of Africa were hacking each other to pieces and the Sikh Khalsa army was kicking off in India.

We also cleared the world of piracy and slavery, yet now we're not in control of the oceans it's making a massive comeback. At the moment a lot of former colonies/third world countries have resorted to killing each other again and are utterly corrupt, there's something to be said about peace through superior firepower.

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Old March 5th, 2011, 11:55 AM   #25

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And you and every white citizen of Australia are beneficiaries of this 'criminal activity'
Strawman fallacy. The discussion is about British colonialsim,not about me.


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A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.[1][2]
Strawman_fallacy Strawman_fallacy
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Old March 5th, 2011, 11:56 AM   #26
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As aforesaid the Empire wasn't perfect but it did bring a lot of good things ...
A bit one-sided, but IMHO still essentially a reasonable statement ...
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... and it was certainly the lesser of two weevils.
(Emphasis is mine) Say you; AFAIK certainly not the consensus of the victims (sorry: lucky chosen populations), who should in all likelihood know something about this issue.

To be honest, the same can be said on virtually any other colonialism or equivalent all along History.

You know, it is exactly this kind of statements which makes quite difficult for the former colonies to forget any grudge.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 12:06 PM   #27

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I wasn't refuting the actions of my nation in past times I was just pointing out that you are enjoying the fruits of colonial action. Lets be honest here even after independence the indigenous people of Australia had a rough time of it. When it comes to the history of European colonies nobodies hands are clean.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 12:07 PM   #28

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Do you have any evidence from the former colonies to back up your claims? As far as I was aware the Malasians actually wanted us back, we may not be wanted in modernising nations like India now but I think imperial polocies could do a lot for backwaters in Africa, Serra Leone is a fine example.

The same cannot be said for any other colonialism throughout history because the Japanese were too busy bayonetting women and children and the Germans were killing their way through Russia. Please tell me when the British ever did anything like that on that sort of scale, we had camps to keep the Boers in but we didn't exactly line them up and let them have it with a machine gun.

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Old March 5th, 2011, 12:09 PM   #29

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Well we weren't exactly polite in putting down the Indian mutiny.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 12:10 PM   #30

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That was Victorian policy in response to a provoked action, yes it wasn't perfect but it wasn't exactly mass genocide. When have we ever had anything like the Rape of Nanking or what the Germans did on the Eastern Front?

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