Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI, who was the weak link? - Historum

**Jake10** · April 16th, 2011, 07:40 PM

While Marie has been accused of gambling, not caring to learn and being selfish, I believe the king was to blame for their downfall. Aside from being extremely naive in business, as his dealings with Benjamin Franklin show, this was a man who slept with his wife for years without having children, because he didn't know how to have sex. I think Marie could have been a good queen with a better partner. Thoughts?

**Qymaen** · April 16th, 2011, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake10

While Marie has been accused of gambling, not caring to learn and being selfish, I believe the king was to blame for their downfall. Aside from being extremely naive in business, as his dealings with Benjamin Franklin show, this was a man who slept with his wife for years without having children, because he didn't know how to have sex. I think Marie could have been a good queen with a better partner. Thoughts?

Would she have been? I think Marie had been like that, irresponsible, ignorant, and insensitive (LOL!

Unintentional

), before she married Louis XVI. Louis XVI may have been naive, but Marie knew what she was doing.

**Jake10** · April 16th, 2011, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qymaen

Would she have been? I think Marie had been like that, irresponsible, ignorant, and insensitive (LOL!

Unintentional

), before she married Louis XVI. Louis XVI may have been naive, but Marie knew what she was doing.

Exactly! This was an astute girl. She just needed guidance. "No such thing as bad students, only bad teacher". Right?

**Qymaen** · April 16th, 2011, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake10

Exactly! This was an astute girl. She just needed guidance. "No such thing as bad students, only bad teacher". Right?

No, you misunderstand. I'm saying that Marie knew that she was being rude and blatant to the French people and you know what she didn't give a damn! She did what she wanted because she could and was able to.

**Jake10** · April 16th, 2011, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qymaen

No, you misunderstand. I'm saying that Marie knew that she was being rude and blatant to the French people and you know what she didn't give a damn! She did what she wanted because she could and was able to.

Okay, but she was young. Should her older and 'supposedly' wiser husband not have changed that? After all, he was the leading figure.

**Earl_of_Rochester** · April 16th, 2011, 08:15 PM

Louis couldn't have children because of a medical problem with his gentleman's parts which made it very painful to become sexually aroused. Only after surgery was he able to perform properly and finally have children, his lateness is partly due to being terrified of the operation.

Marie on the other hand was a first class idiot, everything about her suggests narcisistic personality disorder (which is unfortunately a common occurance for pretty teenage girls). She was massively self obsessed, cared nothing for learning and just wanted to spend money on jewels and clothes. She was completely and utterly deluded and lived in her own little dreamworld, in fact she even had one created for her:

Hameau_de_la_reine

It's the equivalent of putting Paris Hilton or one of those spectacularly ignorant cretins from the Big Brother series in the Presidency, but I think even a peroxide valley girl like Paris would have more sense.

She was a victim of her own stupidity in the end.

EoR

**Qymaen** · April 16th, 2011, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake10

Okay, but she was young. Should her older and 'supposedly' wiser husband not have changed that? After all, he was the leading figure.

Well quite a few "older and 'supposedly' wiser" leaders did some pretty stupid and childish things also. You can't expect someone to change like that and as said before, Louis was rather naive.

**A7X** · April 16th, 2011, 08:27 PM

They were both to blame. If I understand correctly, Louis' grandfather was just like him, partying and wasting away the time, and not using it to build up the future king and prepare him. France lost so much during his(Louis 15th's) reign. Then Marie Antoinette was always giving Louis horrible advice and giving the royal couple a bad reputation.

**Qymaen** · April 16th, 2011, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wastedgrunt36

They were both to blame. If I understand correctly, Louis' grandfather was just like him, partying and wasting away the time, and not using it to build up the future king and prepare him. Then Marie Antoinette was always giving Louis horrible advice and giving the royal couple a bad reputation.

The Sun King was like that? Are you sure? I do believe his son was like that, though.

**A7X** · April 16th, 2011, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qymaen

The Sun King was like that? Are you sure? I do believe his son was like that, though.

No no, not the Sun King, but Louis the 15th. Louis the 16th's father never became king, it want from Grandfather(15th) to Grandson(16th) and skipped him.