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Old November 21st, 2009, 08:29 AM   #41

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Re: The good things that Stalin did do


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Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
Stalin made little difference to the defeat of germany, perhaps made it longer by his awful generalship and not allowing orderly retreats where required. He also had 30,000 of his most skilled generals executed before the war which also lead to disaster during the innitial german attack in 1941.

USSR was lucky to survive the germans under stalins leadership, they should be very grateful to britain who could have opted out of the war as Hitler wanted, and the americans who committed to the invasion of europe culmulating with d-day.
I already know your opinion about the "minor contribution" of the Soviet Union for the defeat of Nazi Germany, you dont need to repeat yourself in every thread.
Soviet soldiers were running on bayonet charges with the words "За Сталину! За родину" when you translate that to yourself you will understand what was his exact role in this war.
Stalin didn't had any military education, he wasn't a general, he wasn't even a soldier, how can you expect for such man to be a good general, or how can he make military tactic?

If i start speaking in the same manner as you do i can also say "Britain should be happy that USSR didn't opted out of the war, and left Britain to fight alone with the massive german army which wouldn't be on the eastern front, but in North Africa, pushing even further then Egypt, and maybe making England to capitulate" but im not a fan of speculative history, so i will leave this for the people who love to write in this "Speculative" subforum, if you like make a thread there about what would have happened if USSR was left alone, and who should be grateful to whom.
Also the number 30,000 of his generals doesn't mean nothing to me until you show me an exact info to prove this exact number.
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Old November 21st, 2009, 08:49 AM   #42

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Re: The good things that Stalin did do


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Originally Posted by sturm View Post
If i start speaking in the same manner as you do i can also say "Britain should be happy that USSR didn't opted out of the war, and left Britain to fight alone with the massive german army which wouldn't be on the eastern front, but in North Africa, pushing even further then Egypt, and maybe making England to capitulate"
That's right. Britain and France declared war on Germany because Hitler invaded Poland. Hitler invaded Poland to get at Russia. He had a Drang nach Osten thing going on in his tiny little mind, where the Herrenvolk would ride down the Untermensch for sport. It's in his book.
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Old November 21st, 2009, 09:51 AM   #43
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Re: The good things that Stalin did do


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Stalin made little difference to the defeat of germany, perhaps made it longer by his awful generalship and not allowing orderly retreats where required. He also had 30,000 of his most skilled generals executed before the war which also lead to disaster during the innitial german attack in 1941.
30000 generals? But seriously... even Zhukov himself wouldn't agree with you that Stalin made little difference. And he was one of the main commanders. And without Stalin's ultrafast industrialization at any cost, USSR simply wouldn't have industrial capacity to defeat germans, even with best generals available.

Quote:
USSR was lucky to survive the germans under stalins leadership, they should be very grateful to britain who could have opted out of the war as Hitler wanted, and the americans who committed to the invasion of europe culmulating with d-day.
Brits and "Americans" were repeatedly postponing the invasion of Europe for about two years, and they only did it when victory of USSR was inevitable, and entire Europe was in danger of being "liberated" by Red Army. Of course such operation needed vast amount of resources, and there were also other fronts and considerable material help to USSR from US, but the constant postponing of D-day IMO had also some political background, not just military. At the time of D-Day, result of war was already decided, and the fact is that 3/4 of Wehrmacht was defeated by Red Army.

Last edited by vid; November 21st, 2009 at 10:32 AM.
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Old November 21st, 2009, 10:25 AM   #44

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Re: The good things that Stalin did do


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How does that make him good? At least Trotsky had some vision for socialism.

The topic is not things that show stalin to be good.

Act that do good can be done quite unintentionally by people, they could even be attempting to be doing bad when good is done.

Here's a good example.

http://www.historum.com/showthread.php?t=8622
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Old November 22nd, 2009, 03:09 AM   #45
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Re: The good things that Stalin did do


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30000 generals? But seriously... even Zhukov himself wouldn't agree with you that Stalin made little difference. And he was one of the main commanders. And without Stalin's ultrafast industrialization at any cost, USSR simply wouldn't have industrial capacity to defeat germans, even with best generals available.


Brits and "Americans" were repeatedly postponing the invasion of Europe for about two years, and they only did it when victory of USSR was inevitable, and entire Europe was in danger of being "liberated" by Red Army. Of course such operation needed vast amount of resources, and there were also other fronts and considerable material help to USSR from US, but the constant postponing of D-day IMO had also some political background, not just military. At the time of D-Day, result of war was already decided, and the fact is that 3/4 of Wehrmacht was defeated by Red Army.

Industrialisation is one thing but my points are undeniable. He had 30,000 soviet officiers and generals executed in the 1930s. Just look at the winter war with finland for example, appalling losses for the soviets only stopped with the appointment of a previously dismissed general.

The Brits and americans were postponing the invasion but the german were on high alert for those years, not to mention the allied bombing of germany. Also remember that Italy is a European country , where an invasion began in 1943 around the time of Kursk.. As for Europe being "liberated" by the soviets Stalin deliberately delayed his operation bagration until the allies had expanded the beach heads in normany so scared he was of germans rushing re-enforcements east.

The fact is the wehrmacht would have been greatly re-enforced without the americans and british in the war and would probabaly have stopped the soviet force it's tracks.
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Old November 22nd, 2009, 03:12 AM   #46
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Re: The good things that Stalin did do


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Originally Posted by sturm View Post
I already know your opinion about the "minor contribution" of the Soviet Union for the defeat of Nazi Germany, you dont need to repeat yourself in every thread.
Soviet soldiers were running on bayonet charges with the words "За Сталину! За родину" when you translate that to yourself you will understand what was his exact role in this war.
Stalin didn't had any military education, he wasn't a general, he wasn't even a soldier, how can you expect for such man to be a good general, or how can he make military tactic?

If i start speaking in the same manner as you do i can also say "Britain should be happy that USSR didn't opted out of the war, and left Britain to fight alone with the massive german army which wouldn't be on the eastern front, but in North Africa, pushing even further then Egypt, and maybe making England to capitulate" but im not a fan of speculative history, so i will leave this for the people who love to write in this "Speculative" subforum, if you like make a thread there about what would have happened if USSR was left alone, and who should be grateful to whom.
Also the number 30,000 of his generals doesn't mean nothing to me until you show me an exact info to prove this exact number.

I never said the Soviet Union made a minor contribution to the outcome to world war two. Where did you get those quotations.

Last edited by Celticguy; November 22nd, 2009 at 03:22 AM. Reason: delete uneeded remarks
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Old November 22nd, 2009, 03:44 AM   #47
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Re: The good things that Stalin did do


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Reduced the total number of Socialists world wide.
And the number of nazis, too. Glad you can't answer this post...
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Old November 22nd, 2009, 03:45 AM   #48
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Re: The good things that Stalin did do


A good thing of Stalin was building the Moscow subways.
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Old November 22nd, 2009, 05:26 AM   #49
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Re: The good things that Stalin did do


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The fact is the wehrmacht would have been greatly re-enforced without the americans and british in the war and would probabaly have stopped the soviet force it's tracks.
Military part is not my area, but I remember reading that land forces which Hitler kept for defense of western europe in 1942-43 were quite negligible compared to forces on eastern front. Of course this information can be false. Someone who is more into military may comment please?

But the fact still is that it was Red Army who destroyed 3/4 of Wehrmacht. Yes, it was with a considerable help of west, but still. 3/4 is not minority regardless of scale of help.
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Old November 22nd, 2009, 06:12 AM   #50
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Re: The good things that Stalin did do


There was nothing that Stalin did do good at all during ww2 or after ww2,apart from having great achol gatherings.
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