Evaluate Éamon de Valera - Historum

**Mohammed the Persian** · July 30th, 2011, 12:43 PM

Probably one of the most important Irishman of all times, was a leader in the Irish War of Independence and of the Anti-Treaty Forces in the Irish Civil War.

Founded Fianna Fail party and had designed (as far as I know) a constitution for Ireland. He himself served for Irish President 1959 to 1973.

So, now that a brief history has been said. How would you evaluate De Valera as a leader to his people?

**Kevinmeath** · July 30th, 2011, 12:49 PM

Could write for hours, economically he left a great deal to be desired, as a military commander he was poor, uummmm see what happens!

He is a much debated figure in Ireland.

**Linschoten** · July 30th, 2011, 01:08 PM

He had an archaic vision of Ireland which now seems to belong to a remote age.

**General Michael Collins** · July 30th, 2011, 01:14 PM

Pretty maidens dancing at the cross-roads.

DeV never wanted what was best for Ireland, unlike Collins. DeV wanted what was best for DeV. I regard him as cynical, treacherous, self serving, cowardly, archaic, brainless, popular and dangerous, and I regard him as the most harmful thing that happened to Ireland in the 20th Century, being the chief cause of the civil war. How's that MtP?

**Mohammed the Persian** · July 30th, 2011, 01:17 PM

Pretty one sided, though you're an expert in Irish history

So I got some trust in your opinion.
But his actions after the war says otherwise..

**General Michael Collins** · July 30th, 2011, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mohammed the Persian

Pretty one sided, though you're an expert in Irish history

So I got some trust in your opinion.
But his actions after the war says otherwise..

I said he was popular, didn't I?

Right well, here goes; He drafted the Irish Constitution, he founded the most successful political party in Irish history, he cut ties with the British.

On the other hand, he let the North get away.

**Mohammed the Persian** · July 30th, 2011, 01:25 PM

Ah, that's the objective way to look at it

And I'm assuming his party is popular because of him? Or of it's policies?

**General Michael Collins** · July 30th, 2011, 01:27 PM

Oh, it's not popular anymore. But it was, largely because of him.

**Mohammed the Persian** · July 30th, 2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Michael Collins

Oh, it's not popular anymore. But it was, largely because of him.

Ah, confusing Irish politics again!

And I'm guessing they caused the whole 'Ireland is broke' ordeal?

**Kevinmeath** · July 30th, 2011, 01:32 PM

I am being shouted at here why am I not packing--- MtP did you do this on purpose!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Michael Collins

Pretty maidens dancing at the cross-roads.

Pathetic --- him that is not you, lets all live in 19th centuery sqaulor-- so romantic -- barefoot children (because they can not afford feking shoes!) pinched faces (because of hungar!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Michael Collins

DeV never wanted what was best for Ireland, unlike Collins. DeV wanted what was best for DeV. I regard him as cynical, treacherous, self serving, cowardly, archaic, brainless, popular and dangerous, and I regard him as the most harmful thing that happened to Ireland in the 20th Century, being the chief cause of the civil war. How's that MtP?

Now that is rather one sided and harsh (can not say I really disagree with it!) but haven't got the time to be devils adovcate -- he did have some redeming features (I've got ten days to think of them-- will need it)