Tudor chick

Thanks for being understanding. Had a rough couple of days and things just pile in top of one another! Hopefully I can be a bit happier here in the future.Yea I have also made a Princes in the Tower post! When I have time I shall look up your posts since you are a new friend!

Crystal Rainbow

Thank you it always seem a rough ride to us that are trying to get the truth out

Louise C

Anne accepted the divorce settlement, but how pleased she was with it is doubtful. After the execution of Katherine Howard, it was suggested that Anne of Cleeves might be taken back by Henry, and she does not seem to have been averse to the idea. In 'The Six Wives of Henry VIII' Antonia Fraser writes:

'The Lady Anna had not managed to conceal her pleasure at the downfall of her supplanter - and former dancing partner - not so much out of spite, as because the position of Queen was once more vacant. Olisleger, the envoy of Cleves at the English court, absolutely refused to take 'no' for an answer. Finally the English council had to issue a formal refusal begging Cleves never to issue such an mebarrassing request again. The King had fully determined never to restore his 'sister' to his bed since 'what was done was founded upon great reason, whatever the world might allege.'

And when Henry married Catherine Parr, according to Eustace chapuys, Anne indignantly exclaimed that the new Queen was 'not nearly as beautiful as she'.

The indications are that Anne did not see her dismisal as Queen in an entirely favourable light.

Jake10

I would contest this, based on his character which was so self centered that he did away with Rome and made his own religion just so he could have his way. Henry could not stand being denied, and Anne Boleyn would not have accepted his advances unless he agreed to marry her. Even if Catherine had given him a son, he, most likely, would have given into his lust but kept the boy with Boleyn.

It was, after all, his greed that did him in in the end. There are accounts of hereditary genes being the cause of his illness in later life, but it seems far more likely that his lack of discipline led to his extreme obesity and bad health. In other words, he lacked self control.

Louise C

It would have been very very difficult for Henry to keep his son and get rid of Catherine. If their marriage had been declared invalid then their son would have been a bastard, and thus excluded from the succession. I seriously doubt that he wanted Anne Boleyn enough to do that. His desire for a son was paramount.

History Chick

But that wouldn't be possible - in order to get rid of KoA and marry Anne, he had to annul his marriage to KoA which would by default make his (hypothetical) son with KoA illegitimate and unable to inherit the throne. There's no way around that - it's how annulments work and divorce didn't really exist. If Henry had a son with KoA, there is absolutely no way he would have made that son illegitimate in order to marry any other woman, including Anne.

Furthermore, Henry did not really create his own religion. He was spirituality a Catholic, he just didn't want the Pope having power over him and felt a king should be the head of religion in his nation. He followed Catholic traditions and rituals his whole life and considered reformed teachings to be heretical even after his break with Rome. In fact, Catherine Parr nearly landed herself in hot water with Henry by trying to push her reformed beliefs on him.

To be fair, his leg injury greatly limited his physical activity. My understanding is that he did not really start to gain weight until after his leg injury. Before the injury, he was actually very athletic and physically fit. He probably had a healthy appetite to keep up with all the energy he was burning and when his active lifestyle suddenly came to an end, it's understandable that he might not stop to think that he didn't need to eat as much because he wasn't burning as much off. This happens to a lot of people since most individuals are creatures of habit. It's the same reason why it's common for people to continue buying clothes in their former size when they lose or gain weight.

I also think depression might come into play as well. His injury ruled out the athletics and dancing he loved so much and of course on top of that he dealt with the failure of his relationship with Anne and following that, the death of Jane Seymour. And then the disastrous marriage to Katherine Howard too. A lot of people who are depressed turn to food for comfort. Yes, Henry brought a lot of those woes on himself but he probably didn't see it that way.

So I wouldn't say that a lack of self discipline was in Henry's character by nature. I think it was a combination of a physical disability and emotional depression which brought it about and that all occurred after he married Anne.

halomanuk

Which again brings things back to the injury he sustained in the joust.
To be unconcious for 2 hours even in todays day and age is a dangerous place to be,so i still lean towards a personality shift due to the head blow and the horse then falling on him.

Jake10

Well, it's certainly clear that he wasn't above killing people to get his way, be they guilty or innocent. Perhaps he would have assassinated Catherine. Clearly sentencing her to a dungeon of a castle was just that, as it slowly drained her life away, and is a clear demonstration of his cruelty to others for his own desires.

Perhaps the injuries did play a part in his physical and mental state, but a more disciplined person would have turned to studies, arts and politics. Instead, he sought indulgence in food women and drink. This clearly shows irresponsibility on his part and a lack of discipline, as well as selfishness. A more noble monarch would have put the well being of the kingdom before himself.

Actually, it is common for athletes, even today, to suffer injuries that don't allow them to continue practicing, and some do gain weight, but very few get to the point where they become so heavy they can't even walk. And as for depression, it's hard to feel simpathetic towards a man who had more than anyone else and couldn't take no for an answer.

My view of Henry VIII is that he loved himself only, which put his desires above all else.

halomanuk

If he had a personality disorder then he maybe wouldn't have been able to turn to any academic studies necessarily.
He was interested in art very much,but his character did change around the time of the accident.

History Chick

He could not have possibly known that KoA would die when she did. If he had, he would have just waited it out but he annulled the marriage before she died. He did not send her away in hopes she would die, just in hopes she would cave in. People have survived in more dire conditions than Katherine's - I really don't think it was the location that killed her and I really don't believe Henry would have had KoA actually assassinated. There's no reason to believe that was in his nature.

Any human being is capable of going off the deep end. In fact, sometimes it's the most self disciplined of people who can have such extreme reactions if/when they break. If you've never experienced depression, you have no idea what it can do to even a previously emotionally healthy individual.

Henry was selfish, most kings are! But I still don't believe it was his nature to have such a lack of self control that he would have done literally anything to have Anne if he already had a son. It was the son he wanted and when Anne couldn't give it to him, he got rid of her too. Anne was just the first one to see the potential of the situation and push Henry towards it.

That's why I say it was a combination of his physical disability and emotional problems. Also keep in mind that someone with a leg disability will reach a weight where they can't walk sooner than someone without a pre-existing disability would.

I'm not asking you to feel sorry for him - just to understand that depression could have been a factor.

I agree but I believe what he desired most was a son which means he would have stuck with KoA had she given him one.