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Old January 20th, 2013, 03:24 AM   #121

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Originally Posted by infestÝr View Post
i dont get the joke. montenegro's population is 657,394 (July 2012 est./cia world factbook)
Your number is correct, but sometimes Montenegrins are saying that their population is 800.000, as a joke. Eight hundred thousands Montenegrins can carry the gun. Something like that.
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Old January 20th, 2013, 03:24 AM   #122

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Independence of Vojvodina? Not gonna happen. Overwhelming majority of population there is Serbian. In fact, majority of city governments in right wing or national.

I agree with arras - re-integration in Balkans is bound to happen. In two to three decades we will be talking about new Yugoslavia... It probably won't be a state in traditional sense, maybe more of an economic sphere, but re-integration is bound to happen.

As for independence of Montenegro... I am almost sure that within a decade it will go back to Serbia. Once Serbia starts going up in world standings among nations, gets rid of all its problems, raises standard of living, it will (like few times it already did in history) join Serbia.
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Old January 20th, 2013, 03:32 AM   #123

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Originally Posted by Glowin View Post
Independence of Vojvodina? Not gonna happen. Overwhelming majority of population there is Serbian. In fact, majority of city governments in right wing or national.

I agree with arras - re-integration in Balkans is bound to happen. In two to three decades we will be talking about new Yugoslavia... It probably won't be a state in traditional sense, maybe more of an economic sphere, but re-integration is bound to happen.

As for independence of Montenegro... I am almost sure that within a decade it will go back to Serbia. Once Serbia starts going up in world standings among nations, gets rid of all its problems, raises standard of living, it will (like few times it already did in history) join Serbia.
I agree with you about Vojvodina, it's more medias hot stories about independence than it can be reality.But as far as Montenegro is concerned, I'm not so convinced in that, at least until this garniture of government(with Milo Djukanović) retires. Also, I don't think Yugoslavia will ever happen again, maybe in future, but certainly not soon.
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Old January 20th, 2013, 08:30 AM   #124

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I would say that Montenegrin nation sounds a lot more logical than Macedonian one. If you read authors from 19th and early 20th century all of them easily distinguished Montenegrins from other Serbs and noted the similarities with Gheg Albanian. Even they identified with Serbdom till lately the Illyrian elements play very important part of their culture.Also Montenegro had been completely independent during most of the Ottoman rule even as some sort of theocratic principality not very centralized however and that still talks for something. So basically such state has support from historical point of view.
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Old January 20th, 2013, 02:26 PM   #125
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Yugonostalgia is in rising, I can tell you that. When Slovenians are rebelling, which were actually an example of decent "citizen" in former state, then it's clear that all are feeling a sort of nostalgia. But, re-integration is impossible right now, simply because all these wars has been too bloody, so memories are still fresh, although it would be best possible choice.
To say that Slovenians are rebelling, which is a bit too harsh of a word - protesting is the word that you probably searched for, because they are feeling Yugonostalgic is... well, it's ridiculous. When Yugoslavia finally broke up Slovenians were the second most satisfied with final separation of it's constituent nations. The first were Croats, of course.
Reintegration isn't impossible right now (of anytime in the future for that matter) because of wars, although those past events certainly do not help the idea, but because of general unwillingness (which publicly appear two years before the outbreak of the conflicts, although it existed much earlier) of every other nation except Serbs and Montenegrians to continue their coexistence together as one federation.
And about your statement that reintegration in some new, third Yugoslavia would be best possible choice I can say that I understand why you as a Serb (and possibly other Serbs) are looking favorably on this idea. Because when one knows how all privileged positions during both the former Yugoslavias were reserved almost exclusively for Serbs it becomes quite clear why you (or any other Serb) like the idea so much.

Last edited by El Chupakabra; January 20th, 2013 at 02:39 PM.
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Old January 20th, 2013, 02:32 PM   #126

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Originally Posted by El Chupakabra View Post
To say that Slovenians are rebelling, which is a bit too harsh of a word - protesting is the word that you probably searched for, because they are feeling Yugonostalgic is... well, it's ridiculous. When Yugoslavia finally broke up Slovenians were the second most satisfied with final separation. The first were Croats, of course.
Reintegration isn't impossible right now (of anytime in the future for that matter) because of wars, although those past events certainly do not help the idea, but because of general unwillingness (which publicly appear two years before the outbreak of the conflicts, although it existed much earlier) of every other nation except Serbs and Montenegrians to continue their coexistence together as one federation.
And about your statement that reintegration in some new, third Yugoslavia would be best possible choice I can say that I understand why you as a Serb (and possibly other Serbs) are looking favorably on this idea. Because when one knows how all privileged positions during both the former Yugoslavias were reserved almost exclusively for Serbs it becomes quite clear why you (or any other Serb) like the idea so much.
First of all, I am not Serb, but Bosniak, and Muslim to be more precise.

Second, I only said that yugonostalgia is in rising, and I haven't mentioned that Slovenians are protesting(thanks for the word) because of yugonostalgia, only that yugonostalgia is in rising. As an effect of recession I suppose.

As far as new Union is concerned, I don't actually care whether it will or not be implemented, but I certainly see trends of economical unity in our region. Your problems with Serbs and any other nation, I will not comment.
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Old January 20th, 2013, 02:43 PM   #127

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Well.
This thread has gone completely off the rails.
Considering that LV is one of the most amiable contributors there is on Ancient & European topics, puts the fault into focus.
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Old January 20th, 2013, 02:49 PM   #128
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I saw it myself in Sarajevo and talked with other Bosniaks too, there is indeed strong Yugo (or particularily Tito) nostalgia among them.

Btw back to Vojvodina, there are living small south-slavic ethnic groups called Bunjevci and Sokci. Croats consider them just Croat ethnographic subgroups (as they are also Roman Catholic) while in Serbia they are considered to be separate ethnic groups (in Hungary we side with the Croat opinion and they are counted as Croats). I also heard about the Gorani people in Kosovo, who are muslims and speak Torlak dialect that is in a transitional state between Serbian and Bulgarian/Macedonian. Are there other small Serbo-Croatian speaking ethnic groups too?
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Old January 20th, 2013, 10:22 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Lucius Vorenus View Post
First of all, I am not Serb, but Bosniak, and Muslim to be more precise.

Second, I only said that yugonostalgia is in rising, and I haven't mentioned that Slovenians are protesting(thanks for the word) because of yugonostalgia, only that yugonostalgia is in rising. As an effect of recession I suppose.

As far as new Union is concerned, I don't actually care whether it will or not be implemented, but I certainly see trends of economical unity in our region. Your problems with Serbs and any other nation, I will not comment.
First of all, allow me to apologize because I completely misjudged, and perhaps in some way offended you. It is obvious that something that you stated in your posts, was led me to the wrong conclusion.

Second, to be honest I don't see anny yugonostagia rising, at least not in Croatia, and I'm allso quite certain that there is none in Slovenia either.
And as for mass feeling that once was generally better than now, it (as an effect of global recession, of course) is rising allmost everywhere, not just in the Balkans.

Third, mutual trade as a perfectlly normal economic tendency does not have to mean any sort of economic union, but when sometime in (hopefully not so) distant future all states which once constituted Yugoslavia become members of the European Union they all will again emerge as one big happy(er) family.

As for my problems with other nations I can assure you that I have none whatsoever.
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Old January 21st, 2013, 03:06 AM   #130
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I visited Bosnia in 2009. I got the impression it was a strongly Muslim country, at least in Sarajevo and in the centre.

Everywhere I saw mosques being built, and the green flag of Islam was displayed widely. Sarajevo gave the impression of a typical Muslim city; I was there at Ramadan, in the evening, and the people were sitting outside feasting, just like in an Arab or Turkish town.

The people looked like Arabs or Turks, very dark with black hair. Most of the women were wearing typical Muslim dress, except that it was not black but rather brightly-coloured.

Mostar, or at least the eastern side across the bridge, looked even more Muslim. I visited the Mosque there, and it was just like being in the Middle East.

I came away with the impression that Bosnia could never truly be part of Europe, the people are too Muslim and Middle Eastern. I have read that during Tito's time the Muslims of Bosnia were not very religious, but now they are obviously a lot more Muslim in culture than they previously were.
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