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February 10th, 2012, 11:42 PM
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#241 | | Suspended indefinitely
Joined: Aug 2010 From: Central Macedonia Posts: 17,763 | Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbil  Now I want to post few evidence where Macedonians are mention as separate nation
This is a testimony of a Greek soldier Mirivilis Stratis (Greek: Στρατής Μυριβήλης), who after being wounded, was housed by the command in a Macedonian family where he remained until recovery. Impressions from there set out in the book "Life in the grave" (Greek Η Ζωή εν Τάφω) written in 1924.
Αυτοί εδώ οι χωριάτες, που τη γλώσσα τους την καταλαβαίνουν περίφημα κι οι Βούλγαροι κι οι Σέρβοι, αντιπαθούν τους πρώτους γιατί τους πήρανε τα παιδιά τους στο στρατό. Μισούν τους δεύτερους που τους κακομεταχειρίζονται για Βούλγαρους. Και κοιτάνε με αρκετά συμπαθητική περιέργεια εμάς τους περαστικούς Ρωμιούς επειδή είμαστε οι γνήσιοι πνευματικοί υπήκοοι του Πατρίκ, δηλαδή του Ορθόδοξου Πατριάρχη της Πόλης. () Ωστόσο, δεν θέλουν να ΄ναι μήτε Μπουλγκάρ (Βούλγαροι), μήτε Σρρπ (Σέρβοι), μήτε Γκρρτς (Έλληνες). Μονάχα Μακεντόν ορτοντόξ. Λιθοξόου - Κωστόπουλος - Εμπειρίκος - μια συζήτηση - Lithoksou.net | Λιθοξόου - Κωστόπουλος - Εμπειρίκος - μια συζήτηση στη φιλοσοφική σχολή
These peasants, whose language is perfectly understood by the Bulgarians and the Serbs, dislike the former because they drafted their children in the army. They hate the latter who mistreat them as they consider them Bulgarians. And they look with a lot of sympathetic curiosity to us, the passing by Rums [Greeks] because we are the genuine spiritual subjects of the Patrik, that is the Orthodox Patriarch of the Poli [Constantinople]. (...) But they want to be neither Bulgar, nor Srrp, nor Grrtc. Just Makedon Orthodox.
And Dedo Iljo Vojvoda and his proclamation of the Kreshna Uprising in 1847 Proglas_Iljo_Maleshevski_vostanichki_komitet.jpg (image) Macedonian's!
Macedonian's our mother rose up and cry with bitter yell under Turkish fire and yatagan. Our parents blood is shed, sons and brothers are calling to take up our arms against fife century's enslavers and violators, and our abused mothers, wifes and sisters are under the unbearable and inhuman Turkish behavior are crying upon our devastated homes and are waiting for our response.
Macedonian and Bulgarian Hero's!
Our holy Lion is roaring through our Macedonian forests and valleys and is calling us all to take up arms. Where ever you are, hurry up to getter together with our weapons in our arms, to save those innocent victims from this filthy and spiteful humiliation.
Remember that our fathers spill their blood for Greek and Serb freedom [...] Look upon the last year events and you shall see that blood from our [....] still stand on Aleksandrian and Shipanian passage, which blood they did not spare for our freedom... Macedonians!
Now is the time to convince our educated betrayers, that Macedonia even after fife centuries of slavery still can give a birth and still have inside it self Sons Hero's! 2nd of May 1879
Malesh Mountain Macedonian Uprising Committee.
Taken from: Научен архив, Българската академия на науките, София, (НА-БАН-С),Фонд: Сбирка IX, оп. 1, а.е. 55, л. 1.
Uuups, dromon, do you know what you placed on the Net? I was not sure and I had to check it well and ask some of my friends Albanians. Vocabular that you have placed is nearly 80% understandable for today's Albanian language. Bravo for you! Dictionarium latino epiroticum: una cum nonnullis usitationibus loquendi ... - Franc Blanchus |
Mirivilis Stratis refers to Slavs who refer to themselves as Macedonians. He never said that they were actually Macedonians.  | | | 
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February 11th, 2012, 11:42 PM
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#242 | | миротворец
Joined: Jul 2009 From: Bulgaria Posts: 8,694 | Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulRyckier What with the Albanese minority? Aren't that Macedonians/Fyromians? If I recall it well, have to do research again, it is nearly 30 percent of the population now?
And yes as the Fyromians dream perhaps from a greater Macedonia, the Albanians dream perhaps from a greater Albania. Not to speak from a greater Bulgaria? And they all look to history for their claims?
Kind regards,
Paul. | Your rising a very good point here. The albanian population in the Former Republic of Macedonia is actually around 20 or more % of the population, which is of course a considerable part of the population in this country.
The government of the country in question is now leading a program called "Skopije 2014", which aims to do something like a renaissance in Skopie by building different buildings in baroque style. Check it out Skopje - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This project costs 500 million euro, in an economic crisis, in a country like Macedonia this is an economical suicide.
Now why do i bring this exact topic now and how it is connected with the albanian minority? Because such a policy of "nationality-building" does succeed in rallying the spirit of the slavo-macedonians but in the same time, it distance all others (albanians), who don't feel part of this country anymore. This only creates a gap between the people, and Skopie 2014 is only an example of such policy there are many others.
About Greater Bulgaria, imagine if a british minister suggests that United Kingdom should try to restore its colonial rule and for example expand in India. The effect at such statement at best would be a good laugh by everybody else. Same is the situation in here, an idea about expansion or anexation of territories is silly in modern times. In the European union we see that all countries work toward a removal of the borders  | | | |
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February 13th, 2012, 11:39 AM
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#243 | | Lecturer
Joined: Feb 2009 From: Republc of Macedonia Posts: 491 | Quote:
Originally Posted by Thessalonian Mirivilis Stratis refers to Slavs who refer to themselves as Macedonians. He never said that they were actually Macedonians. | Hmmm are you sure that you have not philosophical roots, hehe. Thess, you have a link to the book, it’s really hard for me to read what they did to the Macedonians (and not only to them) at that time, εθελοντική ανταλλαγή πληθυσμών (στην πράξη δεν είναι και πολύ εθελοντική απ’ ό,τι φαίνεται).= "voluntary exchange of populations" (actually not very voluntary than it looks) and ethnic cleaning.
What Stratis more wrote for Macedonians
Όσον αφορά τη μεγάλη μάζα του πληθυσμού, αυτός ο θετικός εθνικός προσδιορισμός, για μένα τουλάχιστον, έχει κάπως αμφίβολα αποτελέσματα. Κάποιες μελέτες Ευρωπαίων, όπως του ελβετού Ράις που ήρθε μετά τους Βαλκανικούς Πολέμους για να μελετήσει τη σχέση του τοπικού πληθυσμού με το ελληνικό κράτος και τα διάφορα κινήματα, καταγράφουν ακριβώς μία παθητική στάση του πληθυσμού, όχι μόνο απέναντι στους Έλληνες και στους Βούλγαρους αλλά και απέναντι σε αυτό που οι ίδιοι ονομάζουν Μακεδόνες Κομιτατζήδες του Σαντάνσκι (κυρίως στην περιοχή των Σερρών) και τους οποίους διαφοροποιούν σαφώς βέβαια από τους Βούλγαρους (αντίθετα με αυτό που κάνουν οι επίσημοι ιστορικοί μας).=
To express that despair and frustration of the Christian population of Macedonia towards the inability or unwillingness of neighboring Balkan Christian states to release them. In the course of several trends are developing. In Sofia, several Macedonian migrs who studied there, raised there, staffed the military, government, schools, etc. up to an agreement with the Bulgarian government a "High Commission Macedonians" (Verchoven Komitet, hence called Verchovistes) which made "entryism" in the IMRO to turn to Bulgaria, and fight for the integration of Macedonia in Bulgaria. In this rivalry to a growing separatist tendency, with strains such as Gotse Delchev, Yane Sandanski and the others, which in due course (can not determine year) establish a theory for the distinctness of the Macedonians as a nation against the Bulgarians, the Greeks, Serbs etc. They are regard as the "organized vanguard". (If translation isn't correct, please let me know) ›ιθοξŒο… - š‰ƒ„Œ€ο…λο‚ - •μ€ειρίκο‚ - μια ƒ…ζή„ηƒη - Lithoksou.net | ›ιθοξŒο… - š‰ƒ„Œ€ο…λο‚ - •μ€ειρίκο‚ - μια ƒ…ζή„ηƒη ƒ„η †ιλοƒο†ική ƒ‡ολή
For this thread is important that in the 19th century there had people with Macedonian national feeling and I think we agree on.
For Albanians in the R. Macedonia, they are simply Albanians living in R.Macedonia. My state is not “pure” and I’m proud in that. Please, just for 19th and early 20th cen.
Thess, please don’t use your favorite smilies ( ) too often, someone can think that maybe you need psychiatrist, hehe
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Last edited by bilbil; February 13th, 2012 at 12:34 PM.
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February 13th, 2012, 10:12 PM
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#244 | | Suspended indefinitely
Joined: Aug 2010 From: Central Macedonia Posts: 17,763 |
Bilbil, I think it's about time you told the truth to everyone else: Ethnic cleansing works both ways in the Balkans... Do you know what this means or not?
Your sources turn against you, haven't you realized that already?
"Yane Sandanski and the others, which in due course (can not determine year) establish a theory for the distinctness of the Macedonians as a nation against the Bulgarians, the Greeks, Serbs etc. "
That means that the "Slavomacedonian" nation was a fake nation created by Slavic nationalists who decided that their history should be associated with Alexander the Great. There was a problem though: | | | |
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February 13th, 2012, 11:24 PM
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#245 | | Archivist
Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 205 | Quote:
Originally Posted by sturm a renaissance in Skopie by building different buildings in baroque style. |  | | | |
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February 14th, 2012, 12:06 AM
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#246 | | миротворец
Joined: Jul 2009 From: Bulgaria Posts: 8,694 | Gotse Delchev: and some facts, here:
-graduated from the bulgarian "Thessalonian man's highschool".
-junker in the Bulgarian army 
This is a diploma of an excharchate school in Stip (Macedonia, back then Ottoman empire). This diploma is from the school in which Gotse Delchev has been teacher at that time, what is strange in it? The second subject is "Bulgarian language", there isn't a mention of the great "macedonian language" at all, The great hero of Macedonia Delchev have been tutoring bulgarian. 
A letter from Gotse Delchev to Nikola Mishanski 1899 wrote "„...Defections and split-ups should not scare you at all. It is regrettable, indeed, but what is to be done if WE ARE BULGARIANS and we all suffer from the same disease! If this desease were not inherent in our ancestors from whom we also inherited it, we would have never fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."
Here is what the american journalists wrote: 
Seems like they too believed Delchev to be a bulgarian and his brigade composed of bulgarians.
The british seem as unaware of the macedonian origin of Delchev as the americans..  | | | |
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February 14th, 2012, 12:51 AM
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#247 | | Lecturer
Joined: Feb 2009 From: Republc of Macedonia Posts: 491 | Quote:
Originally Posted by Thessalonian | This is all quote, don't cut it
" In the course of several trends are developing. In Sofia, several Macedonian migrs who studied there, raised there, staffed the military, government, schools, etc. up to an agreement with the Bulgarian government a "High Commission Macedonians" (Verchoven Komitet, hence called Verchovistes) which made "entryism" in the IMRO to turn to Bulgaria, and fight for the integration of Macedonia in Bulgaria. In this rivalry to a growing separatist tendency, with strains such as Gotse Delchev, Yane Sandanski and the others, which in due course (can not determine year) establish a theory for the distinctness of the Macedonians as a nation against the Bulgarians, the Greeks, Serbs etc. They are regard as the "organized vanguard". "
So when was created “fake” Macedonian nation, please? As you can see Miravilis said that in 19th Macedonians already spoke for them as Macedonians and considered themself as Macedonians. Before that Here was Ottoman Empire and before Ottomans here was East Roman Empire and all population of that empire were Romans.
This is interesting http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/s...lavia_WWII.png This is report prepare by the American military administration, how they see history of the population of the kingdom YU before WW2
oooooo shturm welcome back, will you give as all translation of the Goce's letter to the Nikola Maleshevski-Koljo
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February 14th, 2012, 01:04 AM
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#249 | | миротворец
Joined: Jul 2009 From: Bulgaria Posts: 8,694 | Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbil | Yes it is interesting.
Back in another thread about medieval history, you once told me that a "bulgarian" meant every person of slavic decent, the byzantine chronicles just named everyone bulgarians, and with this funny statement and the statement that "Βούλγαρος" doesn't actually mean bulgarian on greek 
Now you show us even funnier document that you try to prove the existence of your nation.
What i see on this document is twice the mention of "Macedonia", nothing wrong as this is a geographical area, it was called Macedonia. Why do you claim that a bulgarian is a geographical term of anybody living on this lands, but macedonian is aways used purely as ethnonym?
And the name used there "macedonian", is this a separate nation? Because i see there Dalmatians and Dardanians, so what we have two new nations on the Balkans? Those are geograhical regions, a man living in a geographical region of Macedonia is macedonian, look at Thessalonian here, for many times he have said that he is a macedonian ,but that doesn't mean a different nation, he is after all a greek. A man living in Thrace would say that he is a thracian. Those aren't a separate ethnicities.
About Gotse Delchev's letter, can't you read it and translate it? Or you have problem with bulgarian language, on which Delchev wrote the letter?
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February 14th, 2012, 01:11 AM
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#250 | | миротворец
Joined: Jul 2009 From: Bulgaria Posts: 8,694 | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Bilbil So when was created “fake” Macedonian nation, please? | 1944 is the year, by Lazar Koliševski and Svetozar Vukmanović-Tempo. With the directive of the Yugoslav communist party and Tito's orders.
Are there any statues of those in Skopie?
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