Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > European History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

European History European History Forum - Western and Eastern Europe including the British Isles, Scandinavia, Russia


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old October 28th, 2011, 06:24 PM   #1

Richard Stanbery's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: Tennessee
Posts: 8,298
Sir Walter Raliegh..What made him tick?


I came across this on by accident. It is a dramatic reading of a poem written by Sir Walter Raleigh. It is called "The Lie"...


What kind of person was Sir Walter Raleigh? Who was he, really? Who could we compare him with today? Would we relate to him, or understand him, or what things made him tick?

I was undecided whether to include him in European history or American history, as the subject would be well served in either. But, I put him in European history as that is where he was born. He is a marathon of historical study materiel, this fellow. And though famous, he remains a bit mis-understood, I should think.

Come, let us discuss Sir Walter...

Last edited by Richard Stanbery; October 28th, 2011 at 06:31 PM.
Richard Stanbery is offline  
Remove Ads
Old October 29th, 2011, 01:02 AM   #2

gaius valerius's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Aug 2009
From: Belgium
Posts: 5,673

Splendid poët, one of the "Plain Blunt Men" of the Elisabethan age. These men (others are Vaux, Gascoigne, Nash) worked exclusively in the native tradition and Ralegh (I prefer to write his name as such) together with Gascoigne was to bring this style to an all time high. As far as poems go he has an astute number of brilliant pieces. I'm only writing of his poetry here since that is what I'm most familiar with about him. Just what a man he was is proven in his last words, a letter to his wife and a poem he wrote:

(letter to his wife)

When I am gone, no doubt you shall be sought by many; for the
world thinks, that I was very rich. But take heed of the pretences
of men, and their affections; for they last not but in honest, and
worthy men; and no greater misery afterwards to be despised:
I speak not this (God knows) to dissuade you from marriage, for it
will be best for you, both in respect of the world and of God.
As for me, I am no more yours, nor you mine, Death hath cut us
asunder; and God hath divided me from the world, and you from
me.
Remember your poor Child, for his Father's sake, who chose you
and loved you, in his happiest times.
Get those letters (if it be possible) which I writ to the Lords,
wherein I sued for my life. God is my witness, it was for you and
yours I desired Life. But it is true that I disdain myself for begging
it, for know it (dear wife) that your son is the son of a true man,
and one, who in his own respect, despiseth Death, and all his
misshapen and ugly shapes.
I cannot write much; God he knows, how hardly I steal this
time, while others sleep: and it is also high time, that I should
seperate my thoughts from the world.
Beg my dead body, which living was denied thee; and either lay
it at Sherbourne (if the Land continue) or in Excester Church by
my father and mother.
I can say no more, time and death call me away.
The everlasting, powerful, infinite and omnipotent God, that
Almighty God who is goodness itself, the true life, and true light,
keep thee, and thine, have mercy on me, and teach me to forgive
my persecutors and Accusers, and send us to meet his glorious
kingdom.
My dear wife farewell. Bless my poor Boy, Pray for me, and
let my good God hold you in both his arms.
Written with the dying hand of sometime thy husband, but now
(alas) overthrown
Wa:Ralegh.

yours that was, but now not my own.
W:R:

(poem)

Even such is time which takes in trust
Our youth, our joys, our all we have,
And pays us but with age and dust;
Who in the dark and silent grave,
When we have wandered all our ways,
Shuts up the story of our days.
But from this earth, this grave, this dust,
My God shall raise me up, I trust.


As a sidenote, apart from the content which is rather captivating the poem is actually one of the most accomplished technically. To quote the words of Fred Inglis (senior lecturer in english at Southampton College of Education): The poem is sombre and final; if it is also static, it is not the stasis of complacent gloom but of conviction won in the teeth of fear and passion. It costs much in human effort to be able to write like this.

Last edited by gaius valerius; October 29th, 2011 at 02:10 AM.
gaius valerius is offline  
Old October 29th, 2011, 09:24 AM   #3

Richard Stanbery's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: Tennessee
Posts: 8,298

Indeed, that is touching to the core. I get the sense that Ralegh was a very complicated man. And I see no sign that he wished for a retraction of any part of his life philosophy, nor makes any apologies for any of his errors?

Yet he does not come off as arrogant. Rushed and pre-occupied perhaps, but not really arrogant. I wonder if he was manic-depressive?

Just as a side note (another one), here is the modern wording of the letter of patent that Sir Walter received from Queen Elizabeth.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/16th_century/raleigh.asp



Of note is the wording of it. It reads very much like the 18th century land grant that we have hanging on the wall, the one our distant kin were given for our lands we still hold to this day. Yet when I read the Raleigh document, and I recognized some of the familiar wording, I began to think anew about the wording of the thing.

Wasnt this the first ever letter of patent that an English ruler ever issued for American lands? Who devised the wording? Was this something that had been pretty well standard by that time? Did European grants have similar wording before Raleh got this one for American lands? Or, was there something new and innovative about this one?

Did the lawyers of the Middle Temple devise these grants and word them, or was this formed of an even earlier pattern of grants, dating from the middle ages?

Last edited by Richard Stanbery; October 29th, 2011 at 10:11 AM.
Richard Stanbery is offline  
Old October 29th, 2011, 10:23 AM   #4

gaius valerius's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Aug 2009
From: Belgium
Posts: 5,673

I'd only like to add something in light of his poetry and your question on his state of mind. Note that the Plain Blunt Men to which Ralegh belonged, wrote poetry that to us reads as very depressing yet it certainly was not so! The dark tone underscoring the poetry of Ralegh and those others like Vaux and Gascoigne or Nash would be wrongfully interpreted as such, instead they are of a complementary nature. These men did enjoy life, their poetry dealing with death are complementary, they usher in acceptance, the acceptance of life... and death. The angle is not that of men longing for death but that of men welcoming death as inevitable when it comes, and as such they accept death, they neither long nor fear it, they simply accept.
gaius valerius is offline  
Old October 29th, 2011, 10:43 AM   #5

Richard Stanbery's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: Tennessee
Posts: 8,298

Yes, like a soldier who had felt the shadow upon him many times in the past. I wonder if his writings from his youth (before he became hardened by combat) reflected this as well? I suspect they would be different? More optimistic and evasive on the subject of death?
Richard Stanbery is offline  
Old October 29th, 2011, 11:00 AM   #6

Edgewaters's Avatar
Contrarian
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,585

Hmmm ... well according to Brown & Williamson, it was fresh tobacco that made him tick:

Click the image to open in full size.
Edgewaters is offline  
Old October 29th, 2011, 11:05 AM   #7

Richard Stanbery's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: Tennessee
Posts: 8,298

Yes, a trend setter.

Do you think he was flamboyant? As much as, perhaps, George Custer? I do see a lot of Custer in Raleigh. He was after all, a Captain who helped carry out the massacre of about 600 Catholic troops who had already surrendered, following the siege of Smerwick. Ralegh would fall into the category of war criminal by todays standards. His commander at that place, was Earl Grey, BTW.

And he qave the old "just following orders" defense.

So, Earl Grey got a tea named after him, and Ralegh got a tobacco product named after him. Other than that, I think Ralegh had a cold streak about him. A hardened man, yet still retaining some sensitivity. Enough to write poems.

How curious!

Last edited by Richard Stanbery; October 29th, 2011 at 11:27 AM.
Richard Stanbery is offline  
Old October 29th, 2011, 11:42 AM   #8

Crystal Rainbow's Avatar
The Good Knight
 
Joined: Feb 2011
From: Cumbernauld Scotland
Posts: 7,113
Blog Entries: 48

From what I have read about him he was not a nice person and I think you are right he does have a bit of a cold streak in him. Maybe he used poetry to express himself as a more sensitive person in history.
Sir Walter Raleigh
Crystal Rainbow is offline  
Old October 29th, 2011, 01:42 PM   #9

Richard Stanbery's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: Tennessee
Posts: 8,298

Yes, and I think that on the last, he felt he had been set up to take a fall. And thus bitter he became, and felt that he might have carried off his plans if he had not been truthful about what he intended. But by being honest, his enemies had used that to tie a noose around his neck (actually an axe was used, but I digress).

Raleigh felt as if his enemies were no better than to be deserving of a lie. And thus the poem?
Richard Stanbery is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > European History

Tags
ralieghwhat, sir, tick, walter


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Map I made! DeliciousTomatoesYay General History 24 September 27th, 2011 04:18 PM
President Theodore Roosevelt...what made him tick? Richard Stanbery American History 6 June 10th, 2011 12:45 PM
Czech mission of Lord Walter Runciman from British perspective vid European History 3 April 27th, 2011 04:05 PM
Walter Cronkite has died diddyriddick American History 6 July 18th, 2009 09:27 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.