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Old January 14th, 2012, 02:39 AM   #31

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Originally Posted by Linschoten View Post
Sorry, that wasn't much help; when I have a moment, I may be able to help out by summarizing some of it. Apparently what discredited it in the eyes of most Dutch scholars was paper published in the 1870s which seemed to show that there were serious linguistic implausibilities. Apparently it was taken up later by Nazi sympathisers! There is a recent paper there, which I haven't read yet, and an apparently significant Dutch book has been published on it quite recently. The best idea would be to have a separate thread on this curious book!
I would be very interested if you could do a little summary Linschoten ,i cannot read it but can see by volume , that the link you gave looks fairly large in content , but any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.
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Old January 14th, 2012, 03:06 AM   #32
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Yes. But why did they put Frisland way out in the Atlantic?
Even today when most people think of Friesland they think of the dutch provinces and the land between the rivers Weser and Ems in Germany. They think of the Frisian islands as those in a long chain immediately offsore. North Friesland however is very different and was largely comprised of islands off the west coast of Jutland.

In reality, they were not far from the mainland but, as you can see from this map, the Carta Marina, people had different concepts as to size and distance.
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Old January 14th, 2012, 03:08 AM   #33
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Even today when most people think of Friesland they think of the dutch provinces and the land between the rivers Weser and Ems in Germany. They think of the Frisian islands as those in a long chain immediately offsore. North Friesland however is very different and was largely comprised of islands off the west coast of Jutland.

In reality, they were not far from the mainland but, as you can see from this map, the Carta Marina, people had different concepts as to size and distance.
I've read that Friesland was often confused with the Faroes, but why?
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Old January 14th, 2012, 03:46 AM   #34

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Quote:
I would be very interested if you could do a little summary Linschoten ,i cannot read it but can see by volume , that the link you gave looks fairly large in content , but any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.
Maybe you'd like to start a thread on it? Then I'd contribute.
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Old January 14th, 2012, 06:04 AM   #35

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OK Thanks.......Where would you suggest , Ancient History or Speculative ??
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Old January 14th, 2012, 06:26 AM   #36

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I would have thought Speculative, since it is a sort of alternative history.
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Old January 14th, 2012, 07:37 AM   #37
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I've read that Friesland was often confused with the Faroes, but why?
I can only guess but if you zoom in on the Carta Marina, which was complied after the Groete Mandrenke, Only those parts of Frisia in Germany and the Netherlands are marked, ie south of the Elbe. The remnants of North Frisia are to the north of Ditmersia, modern Dithmarschen. There may have been tales of the Frisian Islands in the ocean to the west, which were lost.

You can see from the Carta Marina that even in the 16th cent. the location of places such as Ireland, northern Scotland, Helgoland etc are all badly sized and out of position in relation to each other. Anyone wanting to add some lost islands to the west would just take a guess. "Ahh, you mean the Faroes?" Just my opinion though.

Last edited by authun; January 14th, 2012 at 07:44 AM.
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Old July 25th, 2012, 06:48 AM   #38

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I've read that Friesland was often confused with the Faroes, but why?
I was wandering around the board, looking for a thread about Frisia. Well, this is not exactly about Frisia, but hey!

=

To answer your question: No, that was the mythical island Friesland/Frislant/Frieslant that was explained as being the Faeröer.

And for good reasons:

Many placenames Zeno put on the map of the mythical island sound very close to placenames on the Faeröer islands.

Another - maybe the best - reason: Frisians had settled on the southern tip of the Faeröer, and lived there from 1000 - 1400 AD, mostly as pirates.
They got whiped out by the Black Plague.

Most probably they did what the Vikings did: name part of the country they occupied after their original homeland. Normandy was called that way because of the 'Northmen', the Norse or Vikings.

The Frisian pirates must have called (part of) the Faeröer after their homeland: Friesland.

If you like, I can retrace an old source that says exactly that.
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Old July 25th, 2012, 07:03 AM   #39

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Found it:


SUMMARY

Three things seem to indicate that Frisians have lived in the Faroe
Islands in the past.

1.
The Legends about the Frisians. In Indberetninger 6 J. C. Svabo (1746
—1824) reports that settlement traces which are said to stem from
Frisian colonists are to be found east of Sunnbøur. In cwo letters
(Landsbókasavnið, Tórshavn) J. H. Schrøter (1771—1851) writes that
the Frisians have resided in the Faroe Islands at the same time as
Irish hermits, that is to say, before the Norwegians came to the islands
in 825. J. G. Forchhammer's Dagbok (1821) has a legend according to
which the first settlers on Suðuroy were Frisian pirates at Akrabyrgi.
In Antiquarisk Tidsskrift 1849—1851 it is said (by Schrøter) that these
Frisians came to the Faroe Islands a long time after the Norwegian
landnam, and (by V. U. Hammershaimb) that after the plague (1349—
1350) the farmer at Akrabyrgi led the southern Faroemen against the
bishop of Kirkjubøur, who demanded too much money for a new
church. A. W. Brøgger, in Løgtingssøga Føroya, 1. bók (1937), supposes
that the name Frisian came in after the Norwegian invasion. Does this
mean that Frisians came to the Faroe Islands on several occasions? In
Seggjasøgur úr Sumba I (1963) P. F. Joensens thinks of the northern
Frisians as being driven away by the Danish King Abel (t 1252). He
identifies the farmer at Akrabyrgi as Hergeir, the adversary of Bishop
Erlendur (t 1308). Thus we have a chronological difference in relation
to the statement by Hammershaimb.

2.
Frislanda. The Frisian chroniclers Suffridus Petri and Martinus Hamconius
(17th century) place the island of Frislanda north of Britannia
in the period following the Germanic invasion. The name Frisland(a)
and variants appear on maps from the 14th century (by Ranulfus de
Hyggeden, Alberto Cantino, Martin Waldseemiiller, Petrus de Nobilibus
Formis, Andrea Bianco, Juan de la Cosa). In 1558 a book by Nicoló
Zeno Jr.: De i commentarii I .... / della scoprimento dell' Isole Frislanda,
was published in Venice. According to this book the Venetians
Nicolo Sr. and Antonio have visited Frislanda in the 14th century.
Zichmni, the adversary of the Norwegian king on the island, sailed
together with Antonio to the west in the wake of the Frislanda fishermen
who reached even more distant coasts, which must refer to the
American continent. A map, which is said to go back to an original
from the 14th century, is added to the book. In The Annals of I . . . . I
the brothers /..../ Zeno (1898) F. W. Lucas asserts that all this is
pure fabrication. He had not read an article by E. Beauvois in Le
Museon 1890 which connects the name of the island with the Legendsabout the Frisians. The name Frislanda for (part of) the Faroe Islands disappeared in time in favour of the present name. Thuse arose the theory of the drowned island of Frislanda.

3.
Frísa vísa. There is a game to which a ballad was sung about Frisian
pirates who kidnapped a girl. She is not set free until her bethrothed
has paid the ransom. The Faroese variants were written down only at
the beginning of the 19th century, the Icelandic ones at the beginning
of the 18th century. Both groups mention the Frisian nationality of the
pirates. In all other European variants, treated by Erich Pohl in Die
deutsche Volksballade von der »Losgekauften« (1934), this feature is
missing. Probably the original Danish model for the Faroese and Icelandic
variants had this name, because in 1370 young girls were kidnapped
by pirates in the Frisian Westerhever, which belonged to Denmark
at that time. The oldest Icelandic variants place the event in
Denmark, because they call the girl a 'Danamasr'. Instead of the route
Denmark—the Faroe Islands—Iceland (Pohl), the ballad might as
well have followed the route Denmark—Iceland—the Faroe Islands,
or two routes independent of each other: Denmark—Iceland and Den-
mark—the Faroe Islands. Frísavísa in itself does not necessarily refer
to Frisian settlement in the Faroe Islands, but it becomes interesting
in connection with the above points 1 and 2.

sumba
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Old July 25th, 2012, 07:57 AM   #40

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Most interesting, thank you (Nyneve is no longer a member of the forum).

I'm not convinced that the Zeno book is evidence for anything much, since it is all invented; and since the author would have known about the Frisian islands, he might well have given that name to an island further out in the Atlantic without being acquainted with any specific legends relating to the Faroes (such has might have been familiar to people in the Low Countries).
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