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Old July 25th, 2012, 12:06 PM   #51

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Quote:
Originally Posted by davu View Post
i am very jealous ---
That's what you get when your country is a mere midget between big boys, lol.

OK, here's the text in English:

We Frisians will defend our land with five arms: with sword and buckler, with spade, fork and spear, whether the tide be ebbing of flowing.

We will fight day and night so that all Frisians may be free, both now and hereafter, as long as the wind blows through the clouds and the world remains.

All I knew was this English translation, and I fabricated my own Old Frisian version (using an Old Frisian dictionary a couple of times).

You can google till your eyes pop out, but you will never find the original Frisian text online.

I used Old Dutch grammer and vocabulary (which I had to study as I said before), I used Old Frisian grammar and vocabulary, and with all that I created something I think even a Rolf Bremmer would believe to be real Old (= 12/13th century) Frisian, the same language as used in the 2600 years old Oera Linda Book...

Btw: I assume you are of Anglo-Saxon descent. Can you read Old English, or nglisc as it is called? I can read much of it, but I must read it out loud.

.

Last edited by Vrank_Bouleen; July 25th, 2012 at 12:20 PM.
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Old July 25th, 2012, 02:37 PM   #52

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the Moselle region of Lorraine
the family tree has been traced back to the 15th century in this district --- the tree i'm a member of left in the 1860-1870's -- the story goes they got tired of the french and germans squabbling over the area and they seem to have avoided a small massacre at some point --- so the "german" speaking great great great etc packed up, jumped on a ship and left -- i've been told they didn't have "fond" memories of the "old" country --

but i'm now married into a scotish/irish family that has been traced back to the 13th century - seems the english didn't burn records as much as the mainland europeans -- --
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Old July 25th, 2012, 02:55 PM   #53

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this is a website i have been "barely" following --- i have so far to go that "its lost in translation" ---

Old English / Anglo-Saxon

What's new on Omniglot?
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Old July 26th, 2012, 03:03 AM   #54

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Quote:
Originally Posted by davu View Post
the family tree has been traced back to the 15th century in this district --- the tree i'm a member of left in the 1860-1870's -- the story goes they got tired of the french and germans squabbling over the area and they seem to have avoided a small massacre at some point --- so the "german" speaking great great great etc packed up, jumped on a ship and left -- i've been told they didn't have "fond" memories of the "old" country --

but i'm now married into a scotish/irish family that has been traced back to the 13th century - seems the english didn't burn records as much as the mainland europeans -- --
I had no knowledge of mainland Europeans burning records, lol.

An elder brother of mine was quite fanatic concerning genealogy and traced the family line on our father's side back to to a little s--hole in the Dutch province of Brabant, 15th century. In fact that is where my father's side of the family had lived for centuries. But according to him there is a lacune in the records, and suddenly a jump backwards a couple of ages, and we end up in Antwerp, 13th century. And while researching for the Oera Linda Book I discovered an early 20th century Frisian major in the Rstringen area (modern day Wilhelmshaven in Germany) with a surname very much like mine (no, not "Bouleen", heh). So I asked my brother and he said he knew of that guy, and said this major was very probably related to us.

Then we have our mother's side of the family, and that line leads to the Dutch province of Noordholland, to about the 16 century (as far as I remember what he showed me).

But both sides of the family had a regular influx of 'foreign genes', lol: German, Basque, Jewish, and some other wanderers.
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Old August 16th, 2017, 06:03 AM   #55
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Here is an example of the Frislandic language. It resembles modern Icelandic but has lost many inflections and uses several different letters. Frisland still uses the Julian calendar:

Foru a ſland oc Frſland brce ecke same Tmetale (N es en reten dage Meſmoner.) ſcal have Huge a a can have et riv Tmelongden ſum a taker a feres mellem eſere Lande.

Vi canem till Dymes legje av Sta frm Frſlande an elevte enquers Mneer oc come till ſlands an fjrer-oc-tvtgjeſte. Feren haver tace hyle reten Dage oc ſjtgje Mnter, ſum es en mic ljng oc lyenleg Flygv.

Hymlyene canem vi legje av Sta frm ſlande an fem-oc-tvytgjeſte enquers Mneer oc come till Frſlands an tlvte. Feren tacer mnus tlv Dage, tvyr-oc-tvytgje Stunder oc femtgje Mnter. a es ſumſagt hgt a come till Bace fir en man legger av Sta, ſum es en mecel Tmeſparnaer, men enaſt ve Hym comem.

Comem u Hym ſum ofteſt!

(r Frſlendſce Spjgerenem)
____________________
Since Iceland and Frisland do not use the same calendar (There is currently a discrepancy of thirteen days.) one should bear in mind that this can have an effect on the length of time it takes to travel between the two countries.

We may for example depart from Frisland on the eleventh of a certain month and arrive in Iceland on the twenty-fourth. The trip has taken thirteen days and seventy minutes which is a long and boring flight.

On the way home we may depart from Iceland on the twenty-fifth of the month and arrive in Frsland on the twelfth. The trip has thus taken minus twelve days, twenty-two hours and fifty minutes. One may therefore return before one set off, thereby saving a great deal of time, but only on the return trip.

Let us therefore return home as frequently as possible!

(from Frslendsce Spjgeren – a popular comic periodical)
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Old August 16th, 2017, 11:36 AM   #56
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Frisian is spoken in Friesland. Not to be confused with Frislandic which is spoken in Frisland.
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Old August 17th, 2017, 12:46 AM   #57
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For me the interesting speculation is Frisland might have been the "ground-zero" of Germanic culture. (traditionally veiwed as being Jutland) Linguists are of the opinion that although the Germanic language is hard to place on the language tree. It was primarily an offshoot of what for lack of a better label, could be called 'proto-celtic'. But compared to other offshoots, like Italic and Greek, this one diverged to the extreme.
The bronze age Elp culture is the earliest one to show the distinctive Germanic features in archaeology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elp_culture
So why the extreme divergence from other originally related cultures? The clue is other Western European cultures became successful with large scale grain agriculture. This requires the co-operation of many households for the best economy. So naturally there is a large community that is used to cooperation. A paramount boss-man appears, who the community habitually turns to in matters of decision. So we get the Celtic 'laird' or Latin 'patron'.
In the case of the Elp, the fenlands suited a dairy economy. With the result that each household could subsist independently. In this scenario each household head would be used to his independence. Turf wars would naturally feature in between isolated farmsteads. With each household head having to "eye-off" immediate neighbors from trespass. With no boss-man to give immediate arbitrary solutions.

Larger political structures would be more artificial than the the natural one of the 'boss-man'. Instead of the boss-man acting as judge, we get juries of theoretical 'equals'.
This is a pattern of behavior illustrated in the later Saga literature. Which tends to resemble the epic Western story narrative. And indeed these people were 'cow-boys'! An interesting feature is alongside the primitive domestic culture, was first rate bronze swords. Perhaps acquired as expensive imports. These were their "six-guns". And the importance of having a fine bronze weapon at your side, to warn off trouble.
A few thousand years of this, and a startlingly different mental culture would evolve.
But unlike other backwaters, this one wasn't allowed to fester away in permanent isolation. Occasionally catastrophic flooding would uproot entire populations, sending them on the march for a better home.
In one of the better old epic movies, Frankish-Norman knight Charlton Heston comes to govern an isolated corner of Frisland. His habitual outlook distorts and comes unstuck. He is seduced by pagan altars and nubile nymphs. He has entered a land that time forgot.

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