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Old January 30th, 2012, 08:52 PM   #11

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Originally Posted by Linschoten View Post
That's fun, I've never read that book.
It's not as funny as Three Men In A Boat, but it has some very amusing passages in it. There's one chapter where he discusses the German love of law and order, and their obedience to rules:

In the German parks there are special seats labelled 'Only for Grown-Ups' ('Nut fur Erwascene'), and the German small boy, anxious to sit down and reading that notice, passes by, and hunts for a seat on which children are permitted to rest, and there he seats himself, careful not to touch the woodwork with his muddy boots. Imagine a seat in Regent's or St James's Park labelled 'Only for grown-ups'! Every child for five miles round would be trying to get on that seat, and hauling other children off who were on. As for any 'grown up', he would never be able to get within half a mile of that seat for the crowd. The German small boy who has accidentaly sat down on such without noticing, rises with a start when his error is pointed out to him, and goes away with downcast head, blushing to the roots of his hair with shame and regret.
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Old January 30th, 2012, 09:12 PM   #12

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More about the dog-carts from Three Men on the Bummel:

But his favourite sport is to wait at the top of the hill for another dog, and they race down. On these occasions the chief occupation of the other fellow is to run about behind, picking up the scattered articles, loaves, cabbages, or shirts, as they are jerked out. At the bottom of the hill, he stops and waits for his friend.

'Good race, wasn't it?' he remarks, panting, as the Human comes up, laden to the chin. 'I believe I'd have won it, too, if it hadn't been for that fool of a small boy. He was right in my way just as I turned the corner. You noticed him? Wish I had, beastly brat. Because I knocked him down and ran over him? Well, why didn't he get out of the way? It's disgraceful, the way people leave their children about for other people to tumble over. Hallo! did all those other things come out? You couldn't have packed them very carefully, you should see to a thing like that. You did not dream of my tearing down the hill twenty miles an hour? Surely you knew me better than to expect I'd let old Schneider's dog pass me without an effort? But there, you never think. You're sure you've got them all? You believe so? I shouldn't "believe" if I were you, I should run back up the hill again and make sure. You feel too tired? Oh, all right, don't blame me if anything is missing, that's all.'

He is so self-willed. He is cock-sure that the correct turning is the second on the right, and nothing will persuade him that it is the third. He is positive he can get across the road in time, and will not be convinced until he sees your cart smashed up. Then he is very apologetic, it is true. But of what use is that? As he is usually of the size and strength of a young bull, and his human companion is generally a weak-kneed old man or woman, or a small child, he has his way. The greatest punishment his proprietor can inflict upon him is to leave him at home, and take the cart out alone. But your German is too kind-hearted to do this often.

that he is harnessed to the cart for anybody's pleasure but his own it is impossible to believe; and I am confident that the German peasant plans the tiny harness and fashions the little cart purely with the hope of gratifying his dog. in other countries - in Belgium, Holland, and France - I have seen these draught dogs ill-treated and overworked, but in Germany, never.
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Old January 30th, 2012, 11:11 PM   #13

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IGNORE THIS POST - LINK DOESN'T WORKClick the image to open in full size.

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Old January 30th, 2012, 11:15 PM   #14

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DRAUGHT DOG from 1915 - Draught_Dog_from_1915.JPG

I thought the Belgian Dog looked purpose bred. Compare it with the Dutch dog in this post and the description from: W. E. Mason - Dogs of All Nations.

Draught Dog from 1915. "This is more or less of a nondescript variety, but he is worthy of a place in the sun by reason of the inestimable service he renders to his master or mistress. Daily he may be seen in Belgium and Holland drawing the carts purveying milk, butter, vegetables and other similar household necessities. He varies in height from about 24 in. to 32 in. and weighs around 100 Ibs. Fawns and brindles are the most common colors. In general appearance he is a cobbily-built strong dog capable of great endurance. Naturally he must be strongly 'made in back and loins, well boned in legs and with feet well padded. The tail is generally docked to about three inches.

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Old July 13th, 2014, 07:12 PM   #15

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What kind of dog is that?
As others have noted, it's a Belgian Mastiff. They were extensively used in WWI to haul guns. As a breed, they were thought extinct, but apparently some still are around.
http://www.historicalfirearms.info/p...-collection-of
I find it interesting that it was ok to ban dogs from pulling carts but not shetland ponies. And of course, none of the rules seemed to prevent use of dogs in Arctic and Antarctic exploration -- where many of the dogs died. Abuses did occur -- and rules regarding maximum loads and how long one could use an animal in harness per day were probably needed to avoid such abuse, but I'm with the original objector -- it was more to ban those who didn't have the money for a horse from competition.
Belgian Mastiffs were used both for protection and to haul the carts. The Bouvier des Flandres owes something of its size to Belgian Mastiffs -- being a dairy cow herding dog that was also used to haul carts. http://www.nawba.info/carting.html

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Old July 13th, 2014, 07:35 PM   #16
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Shetland ponies were used as pit ponies . They were still being used in the 1990s

"At the peak of this practice in 1913, there were 70,000 ponies underground in Britain. In later years, mechanical haulage was quickly introduced on the main underground roads replacing the pony hauls, and ponies tended to be confined to the shorter runs from coal face to main road (known in North East England as "putting") which were more difficult to mechanise. As of 1984, 55 ponies were still in use with the National Coal Board in Britain, chiefly at the modern pit in Ellington, Northumberland. When Ellington closed for the first time in 1994, four pit ponies were brought out (no ponies were used there during the RJB era). Of the four, two went to the National Coal Mining Museum for England at Caphouse. The last surviving pony was Tony who died in 2011 aged 40.[2] Probably the last colliery horse to work underground in a British coal mine, "Robbie", was retired from Pant y Gasseg, near Pontypool, in May 1999.[3"

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_pony
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Old July 14th, 2014, 08:14 AM   #17

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The difference between the cart dogs and the ponies is that the mine pony was used to help bring in money for the mine owner. The cart dog was a poor man's tool. Some aristocrat gets his carriage upset by a cart dog and he wants a law passed. Never mind all the collisions, accidents and near misses caused by horses employed as draft, carriage and riding animals. Nope. it's the evil "cart dog". What hypocritical sanctimonious clap trap.

A study of dogs using the travois showed that even this highly inefficient method resulted in a weight pull of 27.7 Kg (roughly 61 pounds for a 35 pound husky) on short distances and 11.8 - 13.6 kg on long distances (replicating dog travois travel on the northern planes - Plains Anthropologist Vol 39, no 148, May 1994) Dogs can pull a fairly considerable weight compared to a horse and to this day there are competitions in it in both the US and the UK (American Kennel Club, United Kennel Club, International weight pull association).

Laws banning abuse such as overloading and excessive work are one thing. Wholesale banning of an industry based on a few abuses or because you don't like those peasants getting in the way of your fancy carriage is something else.
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Old July 14th, 2014, 12:27 PM   #18
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Pit ponies in Britain replaced women and children mid to late 1800s .
A coal hewer was paid by the amount he could "get". He would be the one to pay the hurrier who pulled or pushed the carts. So later a pit pony was also a "poor mans tool" in a way.
The colliery owners were often the landed aristocracy as they owned most of the land anyway. . I guess the difference is that it was happening underground and out of sight . Like you say the dog cart thingys got in the way of the fancy carriages but the carter was only trying to earn his daily bread

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Old July 14th, 2014, 02:14 PM   #19

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I can not see that using a dog is any less humane than using a horse, as long it as it is well treated of course. In fact a dog actually likes 'working'.

An example of Victorian Britain's sentimental love for dogs.
This is why I cannot believe in those signs "No Irish, No dogs"--can you imagine anyone in Britain wanting to discriminate against dogs?
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