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Old November 22nd, 2012, 03:08 PM   #261
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The simple fact is that the Soviet period was a time of extraordinary heroism, unity, and solidarity unprecedented in the entirety of human history. Fueled by an ideal, the entire country commenced the most concentrated increase in economic growth the world had ever seen, and then rose up as one to defend itself from German invaders, leaving the red flag flying over Berlin. People felt an almost religious feeling of patriotism for their country. The entire nation was united in the pursuit of a historical destiny of Cosmic proportions. These are facts. Everyone has relatives who say the same exact thing... No amount of Svanidzes or Robert Conquests will erase this collective memory from former Soviet consciousness.
This is the very truth and these are the main factors that we lack today - living in capitalistic societies totally devoid of any communitarian sense. Personally, I regret that I was born too late to be able to participate in the overwhelming spirit of those times.

The transformation between old and new days is visible also on the most basic level of social life. In the communist era people tended to be more sympathetic toward each other, they really felt they were social units of the same species, whereas now, after the transformation, they concentrate on their own interest only, not paying attention to each other's feeling. I feel very uncomfortable when I go shopping and I know for sure that a salesman smiles at me only because he/she anticipates the smell of the money I'm gonna leave them, and they momentarily cease to smile and be nice when I tell I'm only browsing - the situation which was pretty unthinkable under the old regime...
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 06:05 PM   #262

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There are active opponents of Stalin, and a large mass of its more or less conscious supporters in modern Russian society.This fact illustrates the significance of the person itself, and that even the dead Stalin continues to "live" - he managed to resist the blows of accusations and revelations.

We should note two obvious facts.

First. As soon as the information and propaganda attacks on Stalin diminution , a positive attitude towards this figure and it's veneration begin to increase again.The opponents of Stalin from time to time can weaken such reverence by propaganda pressure. But, on the one hand, there is a certain level, below which his popularity does not drop, and on the other - as soon as the pressure reduces, rating the of public image begins to grow up again.

Second.In general, positive assessments of Stalin are mostly affect the older age groups than the young. This seems natural: it is expected that the seniors are conservative, while the youngers are free from the stereotypes of the past .However, the usual pattern, only obscures the real paradoxical conclusion. It turns out that Stalin characterized positive primarily by those who managed to live under him, who witnessed his policies,who have experienced it for himself and for his life. And negative - those who were not eyewitnesses to those events and are repelled from the mediated information and biased interpretations.It turns out that negative assessments of the pieces are held only in so far as to actively and aggressively pressed, forced upon the public consciousness, and the positive are viable and recovered even without stimulation from the outside. Eyewitnesses and contemporaries of Stalin's rule tend to think of it positively, and negative attitudes inherent to those who have no personal experience to the unbiased judgments.

In other words, for the introduction of negative assessments of Stalin requires constant propaganda pressure. Positive assessments recovered spontaneously, on the basis of eyewitness accounts.

If you lived under Stalin's rule,your positive assessments of his policies stem from your personal experience, but the younger generation, not being the witnesses of Stalin's era, are witnessing the post-Stalin policies. There was Stalin's policy , known for its results and the price paid for progress. Moreover, the results of Stalin's success can be seen everywhere: from Stalin's skyscrapers to Stalin's industry, from Banner of Victory over Reichstag to the geographical maps,showing the change of the world.

And now there is anti-Stalinist policy. It shows progress only in words, but it's cost is obvious and is far more disastrous.

That is why Stalin in the eyes of common people is a kind of symbol of the Great Victory and all the other victories.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 02:04 AM   #263
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Yes, you're right. My 90+ year old great-grandmothers and great-grandfather were KGB agents whose job it was to brainwash the young generation into having pro-Soviet views. In reality, every single person in the USSR from 1917 to 1991 was 24/7 tortured by Stalin in the GULAGs, who was literally Satan on earth, killed only when Jesus descended from the heavens and shot him with lightning bolts.
I am not interested in your love feelings towards Stalin, love it full-heartedly, if you wish, but you made some dubious claims here re: my country, with Wikipedia quotes extracted from anti-Romanian propaganda. I expect you to back your claims by being more specific, eventually pointing to primary sources.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 11:02 PM   #264

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I am not interested in your feelings of irrational pathological hatred towards the Soviet Union and towards Stalin either. Anti-Sovietism is a mental illness, and should be studied by psychiatrists and put in the same category as schizophrenia, psychopathy, and so on.

Here is a video showing life in the USSR, narrated by a Soviet war veteran talking about his life. He talks about the happiness and enthusiasm people felt living in Stalin's Soviet Union- his story is shared by almost everyone who lived during those times. I have spoken with many dozens of people who lived in the Stalin era and all of them say the exact same thing.


You can just see the people's terror in 8:00, as they shout "hooray" at Stalin on Red Square and sincere happiness is seen in their eyes. Of course, they are just "brainwashed slaves". Probably the KGB shot everyone who was filmed, and they killed the people filming, and then killed the people who killed the people filming while Stalin watched and laughed. Then he probably ate the corpses, as he was of course Satan on earth.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 03:04 AM   #265

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This is the very truth and these are the main factors that we lack today - living in capitalistic societies totally devoid of any communitarian sense. Personally, I regret that I was born too late to be able to participate in the overwhelming spirit of those times.

The transformation between old and new days is visible also on the most basic level of social life. In the communist era people tended to be more sympathetic toward each other, they really felt they were social units of the same species, whereas now, after the transformation, they concentrate on their own interest only, not paying attention to each other's feeling. I feel very uncomfortable when I go shopping and I know for sure that a salesman smiles at me only because he/she anticipates the smell of the money I'm gonna leave them, and they momentarily cease to smile and be nice when I tell I'm only browsing - the situation which was pretty unthinkable under the old regime...
Dorothea, be a lady or a good sport, admit your heart belongs to the USSR and stop masquerading as a Pole. You're not based in Poland but in the Russian Federation - whether by birth or choice no matter. It would be more and more glaringly obvious with each successive post if it hadn't been quite obvious from the first one. So for honesty's sake change the locaton on your avatar accordingly.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 04:49 AM   #266

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Typical behavior of a religious fanatic. As I have said before, Anti-Sovietism is a pseudo-religious mental illness. Anything that contradicts your paradigm of Sovietism and Communism being pure evil is immediately discounted. Your mind is literally unable to accept the fact that a Pole has anything good to say about Socialist Poland, much like an Islamic fundamentalist is unable to accept anything which contradicts their dogma, or like a schizophrenic who hallucinates demonic figures.

The "Country" line at the bottom is taken from the IP address. For example, I am currently in Indonesia, even though I live in Ukraine. So Dorothea cannot lie about being from Poland.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 02:25 PM   #267

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As I have said before, Anti-Sovietism is a pseudo-religious mental illness.
Its kinda funny. Because they did treat it as one back then. Lock you up and feed you nasty pills so you could become a good communist again.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 03:52 PM   #268

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Typical behavior of a religious fanatic. As I have said before, Anti-Sovietism is a pseudo-religious mental illness. Anything that contradicts your paradigm of Sovietism and Communism being pure evil is immediately discounted. Your mind is literally unable to accept the fact that a Pole has anything good to say about Socialist Poland, much like an Islamic fundamentalist is unable to accept anything which contradicts their dogma, or like a schizophrenic who hallucinates demonic figures.

The "Country" line at the bottom is taken from the IP address. For example, I am currently in Indonesia, even though I live in Ukraine. So Dorothea cannot lie about being from Poland.
actualy we got here Russian members who were posting with info that they are from Poland
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Old November 24th, 2012, 04:10 PM   #269

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Impact of communistic revolution in Russia and bourgeois revolution in England on rural communities was very similar.
Ludicrous assertion.

That's like saying that the development of the internet and the personal computer had similar effects over the makers of typewriter machines than the holocaust had over the jews.

The process of economic growth in the UK in the late 18th century onwards reduced the proportion of the population in the countryside as a normal outcome of economic development. That's fundamentally because the income elasticity of food is very small, which means that as people become richer their consumption of agricultural products tend to decrease in proportion of income and as a result the proportion of the working population employed in agriculture tends to decrease.

In Soviet Russia what happened was that the government confiscated the land of agricultural workers who starved to death as result. A completely different process.

Last edited by Guaporense; November 24th, 2012 at 04:25 PM.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 04:18 PM   #270

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Italy sedn 230,000 soldiers and was the biggest in terms of extension and geography of Axis forces therefore I seriously doubt they may have filled the gap between URSS and Germany.
I have already explained him the fact that Germany inflicted 5 times the casualties on the Red Army and still the Red Army grew in size while the German forces in the eastern front declined in size. Further discussion is futile.

Also the fact that Germany, a country of 80 million, was at war with the United States, UK and the USSR, countries with a combined population of 390 million (200 million USSR, 50 million UK and 140 million US). This is the correct standard of comparison. One should never ignore the fact that WW2 was a global war involving, on a fundamental level, Germany versus the entire rest of the world.

If you wish to include the population of Germany's allies you would also have to include the allies of the three main allied countries, including France, Canada, Australia, India, China, Brazil, Mexico and others (that's about 1.5 billion people).
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