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Old November 18th, 2012, 02:27 AM   #191
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IN fact, the United Stated should have been added too.

Aside of Barbados, all the other are either European (fundamentally British) off-shoots, the already mentioned Far East tigers (analogous to Taiwan & South Korea) or extremely oil-rich nations (mostly of the Persian Gulf).

This is the complete list of the British Empire where the Sun never set on:

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
England
Wales
Scotland
Ireland, 1171, independent 1921, Republic 1938, leaves Commonwealth 1949
Northern Ireland
Isle of Man
Channel Islands (Duchy of Normandy)
Jersey
Guernsey
Alderney
Sark
Gibraltar, seized 1704, ceded by Spain 1713
Heligoland, 1807, to Germany 1890
Hanover, 1714, independent 1837, to Prussia 1866
Ionian Islands, 1809, to Greece 1864
Minorca, 1708-1756, 1763-1782, 1798-1802, from & to Spain
Malta, 1800, independent 1964, republic 1974
Cyprus, 1878, independent 1960, Turkish invasion, occupation of northern Cyprus 1974
Egypt, shares of Suez Canal purchased 1875, country occupied 1882, protectorate 1914, independent 1922, Suez Canal occupied until 1956, Canal nationalized 1956
Anglo-Egyptian Sudan, condominium 1898-1956, independent 1956
Palestine, occupied 1917, mandate 1921, independent 1948 (Israel; Palestine to Jordan & Egypt, territories occupied by Israel 1967)
Transjordan, occupied 1917, mandate 1921-1946, independent 1946 (Jordan 1949)
Iraq, occupied 1918, mandate 1921-1932, independent 1932
Kuwait, protectorate 1904, independent 1961
Bahrain, protectorate 1882, independent 1971
Muscat & Oman, Treaty 1798, independent 1971
Qatar, protectorate 1916, independent 1971
Trucial States(/Coast/Oman), protectorate 1820, independent 1971 (United Arab Emirates)
Abu Dhabi
Ajman
Dubai
Al Sharqah
Umm al Qawain
Ras al Khaimah
Fujairah
Aden, 1839, independent 1967 (South Yemen)
Socotra Island
Afghanistan, First Afghan War 1838-1842, Second Afghan War 1878-1880, protectorate 1880-1921, Third Afghan War 1919-1921, Soviet Russian occupation 1979-1989
India, independent 1947 (Bharat, Pakistan [out of Commonwealth 1972-1989], Bangladesh 1971)
Princely States, Protectorates of British India
Individual Residencies
Hyderabad, Nizam, 21 guns (India)
Jammu and Kashmir, Maharaja, 21 guns (India & Pakistan)
Travancore, Maharaja, 19 guns (India)
Sikkim, Raja, 15 guns, Princely State, 1861, protectorate of India, 1950, annexed by India, 1975
Princely States of the Baluchistan Agency
Kalat, Khan, 19 guns (Pakistan)
Kharan (Pakistan)
Las Bela (Pakistan)
Makran (Pakistan)
Deccan States Agency and Kolhapur Residency
Akalkot (India)
Aundh (India)
Bhor, Raja, 9 guns (India)
Janjira, Nawab, 11 guns (India)
Jath (India)
Kolhapur, Maharaja, 19 guns (India)
Kurundwad (India)
Mudhol, Raja, 9 guns (India)
Phatlan (India)
Sangli, Raja, 9 guns (India)
Sawantvadi, Sar Desai, 9 guns (India)
Savanur (India)
Gwalior Residency
Gwalior, Maharaja, 21 guns (India)
Benares/Varanasi, Maharaja, 13 guns (India)
Garha (India)
Khaniyadhana (India)
Rajgarh (India)
Rampur, Nawab, 15 guns (India)
Madras Presidency
Mysore, Majaraja, 21 guns (India)
Cochin/Kochi, Maharaja, 17 guns (India)
Banganapalle, Nawab, 9 guns (India)
Pudukkottai, Raja, 11 guns (India)
Sandur (India)
North-West Frontier
Amb (Pakistan)
Chitral, Mehtar, 11 guns (Pakistan)
Dir (Pakistan)
Phulera (Pakistan)
Swat (Pakistan)
Gilgit Agency
Hunza (Pakistan)
Nagar (Pakistan)
Province of Sindh
Khairpur, Mir, 15 guns (Pakistan)
Mirpur (Pakistan)
States of the Punjab
Bahawalpur, Nawab, 17 guns (Pakistan)
Bilaspur, Raja, 11 guns (India)
Faridkot, Raja, 11 guns (India)
Jind, Maharaja, 13 guns (India)
Kangra (India)
Kalsia (India)
Kapurthala, Maharaja, 13 guns (India)
Loharu, Nawab, 9 guns (India)
Maler Kotla, Nawab, 11 guns (India)
Mandi, Raja, 11 guns (India)
Kalabagh (Pakistan)
Patiala, Maharaja, 17 guns (India)
Nabha, Raja, 13 guns (India)
Sirmur (India)
Suket/Surendernagar, Raja, 11 guns (India)
Siba (India)
Tehri Garhwal, Maharaja, 11 guns (India)
States of the Rajasthan Agency
Alwar, Maharaja, 15 guns (India)
Banswara, Maharawal, 15 guns (India)
Bikaner, Maharaja, 17 guns (India)
Bharatpur, Maharaja, 17 guns (India)
Bundi, Maharao, 17 guns (India)
Dholpur, Maharaj Rana, 15 guns (India)
Dungarpur, Maharawal, 15 guns (India)
Jaipur, Maharaja, 17 guns (India)
Jaisalmer, Maharaja, 15 guns (India)
Jhalawar, Maharaj Rana, 13 guns (India)
Jodhpur, Maharaja, 17 guns (India)
Karauli, Maharaja, 17 guns (India)
Kishangarh, Maharaja, 15 guns (India)
Kotah, Maharao, 17 guns (India)
Kushalgarh (India)
Pratapgarh, Maharawat, 15 guns (India)
Patan-Torawati (India)
Shahpura, Maharaja, 9 guns (India)
Sirohi, Maharaol, 15 guns (India)
Tonk, Nawab, 17 guns (India)
Udaipur, Mewar/Maharana, 19 guns (India)
Lawa (India)
Vallabhpur (India)
Gujarat States Agency and Baroda Residency
Balasinor, Nawab Babi, 9 guns (India)
Bansda, Maharawal, 9 guns (India)
Bajana (India)
Devgadh Baria, Maharaol, 9 guns (India)
Dhrol, Thakore Sahib, 9 guns (India)
Baroda, Majaraja, 21 guns (India)
Bhavnagar, Thakur, Thakore Sahib, 13 guns (India)
Cambay/Khambhat, Nawab, 11 guns (India)
Chhota Udaipur, Raja, 9 guns (India)
Dangs (India)
Dhrangadhra, Raja, 13 guns (India)
Gondal, Thakur, 11 guns (India)
Idar, Maharaja, 15 guns (India)
Jawhar, Maharaja, 9 guns (India)
Junagadh, Nawab, 13 guns (India)
Manavadar (India)
Kutch, Mirza Maharao, 17 guns (India)
Lunavada (Lunawara?), Maharana, 9 guns (India)
Morvi (India)
Nawanagar, Jam Sahib, 13 guns (India)
Porbandar, Rana Sahib, 13 guns, birthplace of Mohandas Gandhi (India)
Poshina (India)
Radhanpur, Nawab, 11 guns (India)
Rajpipla, Raja, 13 guns (India)
Sachin, Nawab, 9 guns (India)
Sanjeda Mehvassi (India)
Sant, Maharana, 9 guns (India)
Sanjeli (India)
Surgana (India)
Tharad (India)
Vijaynagar (India)
Vithalgarh (India)
****aner, Mahrana Raj Sahib, 11 guns (India)
Vanod (India)
Palanpur, Deewan, 13 guns (India)
States of Central India Agency
Ajaigarh, Maharaja, 11 guns (India)
Ali Rajpur, Maharana, 11 guns (India)
Alipura (India)
Baoni, Nawab, 11 guns (India)
Barannda (Baraundha?), Raja, 9 guns (India)
Barwani, Rana, 11 guns (India)
Beri (India)
Bhopal, Nawab, 19 guns (India)
Bijawar, Sawai Maharaja, 11 guns (India)
Charkhari (India)
Chhatarpur, Maharaja, 11 guns (India)
Datia, Maharaja, 15 guns (India)
Dewas, Raja, 15 guns (India)
Dhar, Maharaja, 15 guns (India)
Garrauli (India)
Gaurihar (India)
Indore, Maharaja, 19 guns (India)
Jabua (India)
Jaora, Nawab, 13 guns (India)
Jaso (India)
Jigni (India)
Kamta-Rajaula (India)
Khaniadhana (India)
Khilchipur, Rao, 9 guns (India)
Kothi Baghelan (India)
Kurwai (India)
Lugasi (India)
Maihar, Raja, 9 guns (India)
Makrai (India)
Mathwar (India)
Muhammadgarh (India)
Nagod/Unchhera, Raja, 9 guns (India)
Narsingarh, Raja, 11 guns (India)
Orchha, Maharaja, 15 guns (India)
Panna, Maharaja, 11 guns (India)
Pathari (India)
Piploda (India)
Rajgarh, Nawab, 11 guns (India)
Ratlam, Raja, 13 guns (India)
Rewah, Maharaja, 17 guns (India)
Samthar, Raja, 11 guns (India)
Sarila (India)
Sitamau, Raja, 11 guns (India)
States of the Eastern States Agency
Athmallik (India)
Bastar (India)
Baudh (India)
Banaili (India)
Changbhakar (India)
Chhuikhadan (India)
Cooch Behar, Maharaja, 13 guns (India)
Darbhanga (India)
Daspalla (India)
Dhenkanal (India)
Jashpur (India)
Kalahandi, Raja, 9 guns (India)
Kanker (India)
Kawardha (India)
Khairagarh (India)
Kharsawan (India)
Khondmals (India)
Koriya (India)
Mayurbhanj, Maharaja, 9 guns (India)
Nandgaon (India)
Nayagarh (India)
Pal Lahara (India)
Patna, Maharaja, 9 guns (India)
Raigarh (India)
Ramgarh (India)
Sakti (India)
Saraikela (India)
Sarangarh (India)
Sonpur (India)
Surguja (India)
Talcher (India)
Tripura/Tipra, Raja, 13 guns (India)
Udaipur (India)
Andaman Islands
Nicobar Islands
Bhutan, British protectorate, 1910, Protectorate of India, 1949
Burma, 1826 (Arakan) 1852 (Lower Burma) 1886 (Upper Burma), independent 1948 (Myanmar 1991)
Ceylon, 1795, independent 1948 (Sri Lanka)
Seychelles, 1810, independent 1975
Mahé Island
Amriante Isles
Farquhar Group
Cosmoledo Group
British Indian Ocean Territory, created 1965
Chagos Archipelago
Salomon Islands
Peros Banhos Atoll
Three Brothers, Eagle, and Danger Islands
The Egmont Islands
Diego Garcia
Maldives, 1887, independent 1965
Mauritius, 1810, independent 1968
Rodrigues
Cargados Carajos Shoals
Agalega Island
Malaysia, created and independent 1963
Straits Settlements, Crown colony 1867
Bencoolen (Bengkulu, Sumatra) 1685, to Dutch East Indies 1824
Singapore 1819, to Malaysia 1963, independent 1965
Penang 1786, to Malaya 1948, to Malaysia 1963
Malacca 1824, to Malaya 1948, Malaysia 1963
Labuan, 1846, to North Bornea 1890, to Singapore 1907, to Straits Settlements 1912, to North Borneo 1946
Malaya, Federation 1957, independent 1963 as Malaysia
Johore
Kedah
Kelantan
Negri Sembilan
Pahang
Perak
Perlis
Selangor
Trengganu
British North Borneo, 1877, to Malaysia 1963 (Sabah)
Sarawak, to James Brooke 1841, Crown Colony 1946, to Malaysia 1963
Brunei, protectorate 1888, independent 1984
Weihai Wei , 1898, to China 1930
Hong Kong , 1841, to China 1997
British North America
Canada, dominion 1867
Ontario (Upper Canada), 1759, autonomous 1840
Quebec (Lower Canada), 1759, autonomous 1840
Nova Scotia, 1717, autonomous 1854
New Brunswick, 1759, autonomous 1854
Prince Edward Island, 1759, autonomous 1854
Northwest Territories
Yukon Territory
Manitoba
Alberta
Saskatchewan
British Columbia, 1849 (Vancouver Island) 1858
Newfoundland, 1583, to Canada 1949
United States, independent 1783
New Hampshire, 1680
Massachusetts, 1629
Delaware, 1664
Pennsylvania, 1681
New Jersey, 1664
New York, 1664
Georgia, 1732
Connecticut, 1639
Maryland, 1632
South Carolina, 1665
North Carolina, 1663
Virginia, 1607
Rhode Island, 1636
Vermont
Florida, 1763, to Spain 1783, to United States 1819
Mosquito Coast, 1655, to Nicaragua 1855
Surinam, 1651, Dutch Guiana 1668
British Guiana, 1796/1815, independent 1966 (Guyana)
British Honduras, 1638/1786, independent 1981 (Belize)
Bahama Islands, 1670, independent 1973
Turks & Caicos Islands, 1678, to Bahamas 1799, to Jamaica 1873, admnistered by Bahamas 1965-1973
Grand Turk Island
Salt Cay
Grand Caicos Island
Bermuda, 1609, to Virginia 1612, separate 1684
Cayman Islands, 1655
British Virgin Islands, 1666
West Indies Federation, federated 1956
Leeward Islands, federated 1871
Anguilla, 1650
Montserrat, 1632
Antigua, 1632, & Barbuda, 1628, independent 1981
St. Kitts, 1624, & Nevis, 1628, independent 1983
Windward Islands
St. Lucia, 1815, independent 1979
Grenada, 1763, independent 1974
St. Vincent, 1763, & the Grenadines, independent 1979
Dominica, 1763, independent 1978
Barbados, 1627, independent 1966
Jamaica, 1655, independent 1962
Trinidad, 1797, & Tobago, 1763, independent 1962
Australia, Commonwealth 1901
Queensland, autonomous 1859
New South Wales, 1788, autonomous 1855
Victoria, autonomous 1855
South Australia, autonomous 1855
Western Australia, 1829, autonomous 1890
Tasmania, 1825, autonomous 1855
Northern Territory
Coral Sea Islands Territory
Norfolk Island & Philip Island
Lord Howe Island & Ball's Pyramid
Cocos (Keeling) Islands & Christmas Island
McDonald Islands, Shag Island, & Heard Island
Nauru, 1914, trustee of Aus, NZ, & UK, 1947, independent 1968
Papua-New Guinea, independent 1964
Papua, Queensland 1883, Australia 1901, to Papua-New Guinea
New Guinea & Bismark Archipelago, from Germany 1914, Australia Trust Territory 1919, to Papua-New Guinea
Solomon Islands, protectorate 1893, independent 1978
Fiji, 1874, independent 1970, leaves Commonwealth 1987
New Zealand, 1769, autonomous 1853
Cook Islands, etc.
Cook Islands
Rarotonga
Aitutaki
Atiu
Mitiaro
Mangaia
Suwarrow Atoll
Nassau
Palmerston Atoll
Niue Island
Tokelau Islands, etc.
Tokelau Islands (Union Group)
Atafu
Nukunono
Fakaofo
Rakahanga (Tongareva) Atoll
Penrhyn Atoll
Manihiki Atoll
Auckland Islands & Campbell Island
Antipodes Islands
Bounty Islands
Chatham Islands
Kermadec Islands
Raoul (Sunday) Island
Macauley Island
Curtis Island
L'Esperance Rock
Western Samoa, from Germany 1914, independent 1962 (Samoa)
Tonga, protectorate 1900, independent 1970
Hew Hebrides, 1887, Anglo-French Condominium 1906-1980, independent (Vanuatu)
Gilbert Islands, 1892, independent 1979 (Kiribati)
Elice Islands, 1892, independent 1978 (Tuvalu)
Pitcairn Island, 1838
Oeno Island
Henderson Island
Ducie Island
Phoenix Islands, etc.
Phoenix Group
Phoenix Island
Sydney Island
Hull Island
Gardner Island
Canton Island, US-UK condominium
Enderbury Island, US-UK condominium
Christmas Island
Fanning Island
Washington Island
Starbuck Island
Malden Island
Union of South Africa, 1910, Republic of South Africa, out of Commonwealth 1961-1994, rejoins Commonwealth 1994
Cape Colony, 1795
Natal, 1843
Orange Free State, protectorate 1848, independent 1854, annexed 1902
Transvaal, protectorate 1877, independent 1881, annexed 1902
Prince Edward Islands
Walvis Bay, 1884, to Southwest Africa
Southwest Africa, from Germany 1915, independent 1990 (Namibia)
Swaziland, 1890, independent 1968
Basutoland, 1868, independent 1966 (Lesotho)
Bechuanaland, 1885, independent 1966 (Botswana)
Mosambique, former Portuguese colony, joins Commonwealth 1995
East Africa
Kenya, 1887, independent 1963
Tananyika, from Germany 1917, independent 1961 (Tanzania 1964)
Zanzibar, 1890, independent 1963 (Tanzania 1964)
Uganda, 1888, independent 1962
Rhodesia & Nyasaland
Northern Rhodesia, 1889, independent 1964 (Zambia)
Southern Rhodesia, 1888, revolt 1965-1980 (Rhodesia), independent 1980 (Zimbabwe)
Nyasaland, 1889, independent 1964 (Malawi)
British Somaliland, 1884, to Somalia 1960
Eritrea, 1941-1952, to Ethiopia 1952
West Africa
Sierra Leone, 1787, independent 1961
Gold Coast, 1662, independent 1957 (Ghana)
The Gambia, 1661, independent 1965
Nigeria, 1861, independent 1960
Cameroon, former German colony & French mandate, joins Commonwealth 1995
British Cameroon, from Germany 1919, to Nigeria & Cameroon 1961
St. Helena & Dependencies
St. Helena Island, 1659
Ascension Island, 1815
Tristan da Cunha Group
Tristan da Cunha Island, 1816
Inaccessible Island
Nightingale Island
Gough (Diego Alvarez) Island
Falkland Islands, 1765
South Sandwich Islands, 1775, separate from Falklands 1985
South Georgia, 1775, separate from Falklands 1985
British Antarctic Territory
South Shetland Islands
South Orkney Islands
Antarctic Peninsula

Source: The Sun Never Set on the British Empire

Click the image to open in full size.

Again, 19 of the 46 lowest HDI (plust two unmeasured even worse cases) are former British colonies.

Absolutely all of them were conquered native nations.

None of them is a British off-shoot.

You're right: no magic bullet.

Last edited by sylla1; November 18th, 2012 at 02:59 AM.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 02:28 AM   #192

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Lynch View Post
The British wiped out the populations of Canada, the eastern US, Australia, NZ, etc etc. The French didn't do this - in the best comparable example (Canada), they treated the natives far better British.

The British also virtually enslaved much of India, and the Dutch engaged in similar action in Indonesia - this is not any different from any of the other European powers.

The 'good' former British colonies pointed out by ancientgeezer are in their current condition because the British exterminated the native population and replaced them with their own people. It makes no sense to compare formerly British Australia to formerly French Algeria. These 'colonies' are two completely different types of colonies. The British in Australia were far, far worse - just ask the few aboriginals who remain.

The reality is that the British have eliminated loads of native peoples from the face of the planet - perhaps more than any other colonial power, but surely more than the French or the Dutch.
Please explain Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, Bahamas, Bermuda, New Zealand, South Africa (until 1948)----all highly successful states where your alleged genocide is conspicuouly absent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Lynch View Post
The British were much more honest. They didn't bother to claim everyone was equal or anything like that - they said it as they saw it - they were the superior race.
I am glad you agree with me on one thing.

Last edited by Ancientgeezer; November 18th, 2012 at 02:36 AM.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 02:39 AM   #193
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Quote:
CHERRY PICKING
(also known as: suppressed evidence, fallacy of incomplete evidence, argument by selective observation, argument by half-truth, card stacking, fallacy of exclusion, ignoring the counter evidence, one-sided assessment, slanting, one-sidedness)

Description: When only select evidence is presented in order to persuade the audience to accept a position, and evidence that would go against the position is withheld. The stronger the the withheld evidence, the more fallacious the argument.

Logical Form:

Evidence A and evidence B is available.
Evidence A supports the claim of person 1.
Evidence B supports the counter claim of person 2.
Therefore, person 1 presents only evidence A.
Source.

Yup, a paradigmatic example.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 02:58 AM   #194

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Logical Fallacy
1. Most African countries are governed by black people
2/. Most African countries have a corrupt and violent government.
3/.Most Black people are corrupt and violent

1/. Some poor countries were once part of the British Empire.
2/. Being once part of the British Empire causes countries to be poor.

Source
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Old November 18th, 2012, 03:06 AM   #195

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
Click the image to open in full size.

Again, 19 of the 46 lowest HDI (plust two unmeasured even worse cases) are former British colonies.

Absolutely all of them were conquered native nations.

None of them is a British off-shoot.

You're right: no magic bullet.
Did you notice that 27 of the lowest HDI rated countries WERE NOT former British colonies? Therefore their incompetence, venality, infighting corruption and general uselessness can hardly be laid at the door of the Land of the Angels, can it?
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Old November 18th, 2012, 03:06 AM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
Logical Fallacy
1. Most African countries are governed by black people
2/. Most African countries have a corrupt and violent government.
3/.Most Black people are corrupt and violent

1/. Some poor countries were once part of the British Empire.
2/. Being once part of the British Empire causes countries to be poor.

Source
For the bizarre fallacious straw man of this post, the excellent link above is actually a textbook red-herring.

Quote:
Description of Straw Man

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.
Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.
Read More.

Quote:
Description of Red Herring

A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:

Topic A is under discussion.
Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A).
Topic A is abandoned.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because merely changing the topic of discussion hardly counts as an argument against a claim.
Read More


Admittedly, this twisted & bizarre line of argumentation is the equivalent to a textbook on elementary logics & fallacies 101.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 03:15 AM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
Did you notice that 27 of the lowest HDI rated countries WERE NOT former British colonies? Therefore their incompetence, venality, infighting corruption and general uselessness can hardly be laid at the door of the Land of the Angels, can it?
Please note you are the only one talking here about "incompetence, venality, infighting corruption and general uselessness " in all this nice thread on the British Empire.

Another textbook strawman & red herring fallacies, I'm afraid.


(Unless you may like to prove anything about the non-British colonies, I guess)

"The Land of the Angels", huh?
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Old November 18th, 2012, 03:18 AM   #198

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As usual you revert to your standard apothoghims when you lose the argument.
You are misusing the terms. What next? A bit of the usual sesquipedalian loquaciousness?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
Please note you are the only one talking here about "incompetence, venality, infighting corruption and general uselessness " in all this nice thread on the British Empire.

Another textbook strawman & red herring fallacies, I'm afraid.


(Unless you may like to prove anything about the non-British colonies, I guess)
Not at all. You have taken the erroneous position that British Imperalism and Colonialism has caused countries to be poor or stunted their development. That there could be reasons why any country is poor and undeveloped outside your hobby-horse is open to debate and I have quoted just some of the reasons.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 03:23 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
As usual you revert to your standard apothoghims when you lose the argument.
You are misusing the terms. What next? A bit of the usual sesquipedalian loquaciousness?
Doctor, cure yourself.

BTW, yup, another textbook example.

Quote:
Description of Begging the Question

Begging the Question is a fallacy in which the premises include the claim that the conclusion is true or (directly or indirectly) assume that the conclusion is true. This sort of "reasoning" typically has the following form.

Premises in which the truth of the conclusion is claimed or the truth of the conclusion is assumed (either directly or indirectly).
Claim C (the conclusion) is true.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because simply assuming that the conclusion is true (directly or indirectly) in the premises does not constitute evidence for that conclusion. Obviously, simply assuming a claim is true does not serve as evidence for that claim. This is especially clear in particularly blatant cases: "X is true. The evidence for this claim is that X is true."
Read More.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 03:29 AM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
BTW, from this excellent link:

Quote:
Why study fallacies?

Why study how to reason incorrectly; why not just study how to reason correctly? There are two reasons:

Even if you could count on reasoning correctly 100% of the time, you cannot count on others doing so. In logical self-defense, you need to be able to spot poor reasoning, and—more importantly—to understand it. To be able to correct others' mistakes, or to refute them convincingly, you need to understand why they are wrong.
Studying formal logic and the rules of correct reasoning is like having a road map that shows how to get from point A to point B. However, even the best navigators sometimes get lost, and it helps if the roads that go nowhere are clearly labeled "DEAD END", "WRONG WAY", or "DO NOT ENTER".
There's simply no way we could thank you enough...
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