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Old November 19th, 2012, 08:13 PM   #221

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The vast majority in southeast asia were mixed after the first generation before the 1800s. The peranakan chinese in indonesia were descended from chinese marrying local women, and their native language was malay. There were thousands of chinese mestizos in the philippines.

The spanish forced chinese into ghettos in order to collect taxes more easily, since chinese had to pay higher taxes than anyone else, and in order to control the population since they thought it was a threat. Decrees were issued that limited the number of chinese in manila because the spanish feared their numbers. The spanish forbade chinese from going out of the ghetto and interacting with filipinos

Chinese Among Others: Emigration in Modern Times - Philip A. Kuhn - Google Books

Sojourners and Settlers: Histories of Southeast Asia and the Chinese - Anthony Reid Kristine Alilunas-Rodgers - Google Books

Ambition and Identity: Chinese Merchant Elites in Colonial Manila, 1880-1916 - Andrew R. Wilson - Google Books

In Our Image: America's Empire in the Philippines - Stanley Karnow - Google Books

Investing in the Early Modern Built Environment: Europeans, Asians, Settlers ... - Google Books

Iberians in the Singapore-Melaka Area and Adjacent Regions: (16th to 18th ... - Peter Borschberg - Google Books

You are projecting what you see in the modern philippines on what happened in the colonial era. We are not talking about why chinese in manila's chinatown now don't like to marry filipinos or live in a ghetto.
The prejudices of the Spaniards against the Chinese is because of the acts of piracy of some Chinese criminals in the Philippines and one of them was Limahong, and such happened way back in 1574 in the City of Manila. That is exactly the reason why the Sultanate of Sulo had alliance with some Chinese because both of them engages in criminal activities in colonial Philippines being people who are into piracy raiding villages of peaceful Filipino people, robbing them, raping the women and gathering slaves.

It is true that there are lots of Chinese mestizos in the Philippines, and these are the people who assimilated to the culture of the Filipinos and cooperated to the town activities of local folks during the colonial era, like participating in religious festivities. However, these Chinese who live in ghettos were the once who were not only forced by the Spaniards to be there, but who were not willing to assimilate with the local culture of the Filipinos being Christians during the colonial period. These were the people who do not want to adjust to the ways of the Filipinos during that time, unlike those Chinese who married Filipina and converted into Catholic faith and was baptized with Christian name. That was the way of life of the colonial era, and much as the conversion appears to be with the use of force, but such was the demeanor during that time, which created a better society in my nation where the people were God fearing and respects the authority, thus the ancient ways of being warriors was tamed and that is the reason why I love that transformation of the Philippine civilization which was from tribal warrior people, unto a civil and law abiding citizens who have the respect to the rule of the law.

Such is the reason why, the Filipinos during the colonial era had abandoned the ancient system of hunting a fellow human, as such was practiced by the indigenous people of the Mountain Province of the Philippines which was only made illegal by the time that these people were ruled by the American colonizers. So, head hunting was destroyed in my nation because the Americans intervened with that savage ways of the ancient Filipinos whom the Spaniards failed to be converted into Catholic faith, thus, the simple respect to human life and love of God and fellowmen did not sink unto their way of life.

That is the power of colonialism in my nation that created a better society to live, and I am glad that it happened and so I live in peaceful society that's governed under the rule of law, with democratic and constitutional institution that administers the lives of my fellow countrymen.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 08:32 PM   #222
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The prejudices of the Spaniards against the Chinese is because of the acts of piracy of some Chinese criminals in the Philippines and one of them was Limahong, and such happened way back in 1574 in the City of Manila. That is exactly the reason why the Sultanate of Sulo had alliance with some Chinese because both of them engages in criminal activities in colonial Philippines being people who are into piracy raiding villages of peaceful Filipino people, robbing them, raping the women and gathering slaves.

It is true that there are lots of Chinese mestizos in the Philippines, and these are the people who assimilated to the culture of the Filipinos and cooperated to the town activities of local folks during the colonial era, like participating in religious festivities. However, these Chinese who live in ghettos were the once who were not only forced by the Spaniards to be there, but who were not willing to assimilate with the local culture of the Filipinos being Christians during the colonial period. These were the people who do not want to adjust to the ways of the Filipinos during that time, unlike those Chinese who married Filipina and converted into Catholic faith and was baptized with Christian name. That was the way of life of the colonial era, and much as the conversion appears to be with the use of force, but such was the demeanor during that time, which created a better society in my nation where the people were God fearing and respects the authority, thus the ancient ways of being warriors was tamed and that is the reason why I love that transformation of the Philippine civilization which was from tribal warrior people, unto a civil and law abiding citizens who have the respect to the rule of the law.

Such is the reason why, the Filipinos during the colonial era had abandoned the ancient system of hunting a fellow human, as such was practiced by the indigenous people of the Mountain Province of the Philippines which was only made illegal by the time that these people were ruled by the American colonizers. So, head hunting was destroyed in my nation because the Americans intervened with that savage ways of the ancient Filipinos whom the Spaniards failed to be converted into Catholic faith, thus, the simple respect to human life and love of God and fellowmen did not sink unto their way of life.

That is the power of colonialism in my nation that created a better society to live, and I am glad that it happened and so I live in peaceful society that's governed under the rule of law, with democratic and constitutional institution that administers the lives of my fellow countrymen.
And the spanish conquered the muslim kingdom of manila by force without provocation. If a chinese merchant who had been trading in manila every year went to china and suddenly came back to manila to find it under spanish occupation and the king dead, what would he do? It was exactly because the spanish and portuguese started conquering the sultunates, killing their native kings and taking control that china became paranoid about all those embassies and missionaries who started to show up in china, because china had good diplomatic relations with those kingoms like manila, the other states on luzon and malacca.

Because the portuguese slaughtered the muslim population of malacca and overthrew the malay sultan, china executed the entire portuguese embassy that was sent to china in retaliation and attacked the portuguese fleet when they tried to approach china.

The malaccan sultan kept on sending petitions to china to attack the portuguese and drive them out of malacca.

Look at the date the spanish conquered manila from rajah sulayman, and the date that limahong started his invasion of manila. Can you wonder why he invaded just three years after the spanish conquest? And Limahong was also wanted by the chinese government for being a pirate, he was one of many pirates who came to plague southeast asia, which included european pirates as well.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 08:46 PM   #223

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And the spanish conquered the muslim kingdom of manila by force without provocation. If a chinese merchant who had been trading in manila every year went to china and suddenly came back to manila to find it under spanish occupation and the king dead, what would he do? It was exactly because the spanish and portuguese started conquering the sultunates, killing their native kings and taking control that china became paranoid about all those embassies and missionaries who started to show up in china, because china had good diplomatic relations with those kingoms like manila, the other states on luzon and malacca.

Because the portuguese slaughtered the muslim population of malacca and overthrew the malay sultan, china executed the entire portuguese embassy that was sent to china in retaliation and attacked the portuguese fleet when they tried to approach china.

The malaccan sultan kept on sending petitions to china to attack the portuguese and drive them out of malacca.

Look at the date the spanish conquered manila from rajah sulayman, and the date that limahong started his invasion of manila. Can you wonder why he invaded just three years after the spanish conquest? And Limahong was also wanted by the chinese government for being a pirate, he was one of many pirates who came to plague southeast asia, which included european pirates as well.
For whatever form of brutality the Spaniards killed these people, it was a form of revolution in the Philippines that demolished the practices of caste system and slavery and that was a milestone of my nation. Where the people were told that all are equal before the eyes of God, and so no one must be a slave of the other and that caste system must be abolished because it runs in contrast to the basic principle of equality and respect over human life. No one must be rank higher that the other in any society, and that is attributable to Spanish colonization of my nation.

Before the Spaniards arrive, polygamy was practiced in the nation which was a disgrace over gender equality and how wonderful it is that these ancient tribes of the Philippines that engages in such practice were destroyed in the name of progress of the Filipino society.

These Chinese pirates have no business in interfering with the changes that the Spaniards created in my nation wherein a central government is made in contrast to the pockets of tribes and kingdoms who waged war with each other. It is exactly the reason why Miguel Lopez de Legazpi was able to conquer the nation and destroyed Raja Suliman of Manila, not only because of superior firepower of the colonizers, but also because of the fact that these tribes have no unity. Hence, the coming of the Spaniards created the metes and bounds of my nation and the archipelago started to become one country.

The arrival of the Spaniards instituted great schools in my nation, thus, the Filipinos learned about the progressive ideals about the enlightenment, producing great painters, doctors, lawyers, and people of the academe. That shall never happen if my people were ruled by unschooled tribesmen who live by the sharpness of the blade of their sword.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 09:04 PM   #224
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For whatever form of brutality the Spaniards killed these people, it was a form of revolution in the Philippines that demolished the practices of caste system and slavery and that was a milestone of my nation. Where the people were told that all are equal before the eyes of God, and so no one must be a slave of the other and that caste system must be abolished because it runs in contrast to the basic principle of equality and respect over human life. No one must be rank higher that the other in any society, and that is attributable to Spanish colonization of my nation.

Before the Spaniards arrive, polygamy was practiced in the nation which was a disgrace over gender equality and how wonderful it is that these ancient tribes of the Philippines that engages in such practice were destroyed in the name of progress of the Filipino society.

These Chinese pirates have no business in interfering with the changes that the Spaniards created in my nation wherein a central government is made in contrast to the pockets of tribes and kingdoms who waged war with each other. It is exactly the reason why Miguel Lopez de Legazpi was able to conquer the nation and destroyed Raja Suliman of Manila, not only because of superior firepower of the colonizers, but also because of the fact that these tribes have no unity. Hence, the coming of the Spaniards created the metes and bounds of my nation and the archipelago started to become one country.

The arrival of the Spaniards instituted great schools in my nation, thus, the Filipinos learned about the progressive ideals about the enlightenment, producing great painters, doctors, lawyers, and people of the academe. That shall never happen if my people were ruled by unschooled tribesmen who live by the sharpness of the blade of their sword.
Many powers tried to evict spain from the philippines. The dutch tried to take manila in 1646 like how they took taiwan from the spanish. And when the british attacked manila in 1762, chinese catholics in the "ghetto" helped them take over the city from the spanish. Although britain was a colonial power like spain, they did not force people to convert to the anglican church or have a paranoid islamophobia mentality. This is why portugal and spain got evicted from all of their colonies by arabs in east africa and other colonial powers elsewhere.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 09:15 PM   #225

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Many powers tried to evict spain from the philippines. The dutch tried to take manila in 1646 like how they took taiwan from the spanish. And when the british attacked manila in 1762, chinese catholics in the "ghetto" helped them take over the city from the spanish. Although britain was a colonial power like spain, they did not force people to convert to the anglican church or have a paranoid islamophobia mentality. This is why portugal and spain got evicted from all of their colonies by arabs in east africa and other colonial powers elsewhere.
Whatever the British or the Dutch had done with their colony, was they way of manifesting their imperial powers over those occupied territories, but, in the case of Spain, I as Filipino is so thankful, that we were converted to Christianity because we have monogamy where gender equality is our way of life, the caste system was destroyed, which was so wrong in the ancient Philippine society because it was a disrespect over human life, and the best of it all, was that slavery was demolished on the ground that all men are equal before the eyes of God, and I say, thank you, Spain.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 12:30 AM   #226
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I think british ruling class were the worst and they are the worst nowdays. Anyway French loss in 7 years war was a big loss to humanity,a big loss to humankind.

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Old November 20th, 2012, 01:05 PM   #227

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Many powers tried to evict spain from the philippines. The dutch tried to take manila in 1646 like how they took taiwan from the spanish. And when the british attacked manila in 1762, chinese catholics in the "ghetto" helped them take over the city from the spanish. Although britain was a colonial power like spain, they did not force people to convert to the anglican church or have a paranoid islamophobia mentality. This is why portugal and spain got evicted from all of their colonies by arabs in east africa and other colonial powers elsewhere.
I do know Portugal once controlled Bahrain. But generally the only territory they tended to control in East Africa was Mozambique which stayed Portugues until independence. Spain never had anything in East Africa unless you count the time that the Spanish and Portuguese crown united for 60 years.

When it comes to the Philippines, there were internal and external forces that tried to overthrow the Spanish but the Spanish had the support of the Pampangans and some other Filipino tribes. During the early Spanish years they even ahd the support of Japanese Catholics who lived in Manila since they were not really welcomed in Japan. During the Chinese revolt in 1603, the high walls and guns held back the Chinese crowds that were attacking. The Spanish had the support of the Japanese Catholics. The Chinese had high losses but they might have prevailed if not for the Pampangans who entered the fight on the side of the Spanish. The Pampangans also helped the Spanish in defending against other invaders.


Spanish controlled Manila relied on agriculture from Pampanga province just outside of Manila. So they tended to treat the Pampangans well.

Quote:
If food and lumber were the most important resources Pampanga offered the Spaniards in the early years, manpower for the Spanish army was also very much in demand. As noted above, the Pampangans helped defend Manila during the threatened invasion of Limahong in 1574. In 1603 they not only took a major part in what amounted to a Spanish-led massacre of the Chinesee population around Manila but also joined the looting of Chinese quarters afterward.32 As a result of their role in suppressing the Chinese, some Pampangans were awarded captaincies in the Spanish army, though it is perhaps ironic that Pampangans were thus honored not solely for participation in the slaughter but also for being the most "reasonable" and "civilized" of the native groups.33 From 1603 to the end of the Spanish regime, a Pampangan contingent served in the colonial army. In the seventeenth century it fought against the Dutch and served as an occupation force in the Moluccas, took part in campaigns against a rebel group in Panay and against the Moros, and participated in another massacre of the Chinese in 1640.34 In the eighteenth century, besides opposing the marauding Muslims, Pampangans turned out in full strength to defend the Spanish regime against the invading British.35
Source - From Datus Descended


Modern information on the Pampangans
Quote:
The Kapampangans (Spanish: pampangos; English: Pampangans) are an Austronesian people and the sixth largest ethnic group in the Philippines, numbering about 2,890,000.

Last edited by Epix; November 20th, 2012 at 01:12 PM.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 04:55 PM   #228
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I do know Portugal once controlled Bahrain. But generally the only territory they tended to control in East Africa was Mozambique which stayed Portugues until independence. Spain never had anything in East Africa unless you count the time that the Spanish and Portuguese crown united for 60 years.

When it comes to the Philippines, there were internal and external forces that tried to overthrow the Spanish but the Spanish had the support of the Pampangans and some other Filipino tribes. During the early Spanish years they even ahd the support of Japanese Catholics who lived in Manila since they were not really welcomed in Japan. During the Chinese revolt in 1603, the high walls and guns held back the Chinese crowds that were attacking. The Spanish had the support of the Japanese Catholics. The Chinese had high losses but they might have prevailed if not for the Pampangans who entered the fight on the side of the Spanish. The Pampangans also helped the Spanish in defending against other invaders.


Spanish controlled Manila relied on agriculture from Pampanga province just outside of Manila. So they tended to treat the Pampangans well.



Source - From Datus Descended


Modern information on the Pampangans
I am talking about zanzibar and the swahili coast and oman. The arabs drove the portuguese out from those areas.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 05:08 PM   #229

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When it comes to the Philippines, there were internal and external forces that tried to overthrow the Spanish but the Spanish had the support of the Pampangans and some other Filipino tribes. During the early Spanish years they even ahd the support of Japanese Catholics who lived in Manila since they were not really welcomed in Japan. During the Chinese revolt in 1603, the high walls and guns held back the Chinese crowds that were attacking. The Spanish had the support of the Japanese Catholics. The Chinese had high losses but they might have prevailed if not for the Pampangans who entered the fight on the side of the Spanish. The Pampangans also helped the Spanish in defending against other invaders.

Spanish controlled Manila relied on agriculture from Pampanga province just outside of Manila. So they tended to treat the Pampangans well.

Source - From Datus Descended

Modern information on the Pampangans
It is noteworthy to consider that the Filipinos from Pampanga, helped the Spaniards instead of the Chinese who were also from Asia. That is attributable to the better relationship of the Spaniards with the native Filipinos in contrast to the ghetto ways in the community and piracy of the Chinese in the Philippine shorelines. The Catholic faith also played a lot since the Filipinos were presented with the God who serves the people, the God who was crucified to redeem the sins of the people, the God who died for the people and resurrected from the dead. Such doctrinal ideals that were introduced by the Spaniards to the Filipino natives were welcomed as an innovative idea of how to live in a peaceful society with respect to fellowmen as an equal and law as the supreme ruler of them all.

Thus, the support to the Spaniards who gave the ancient Filipinos a promise of a better society, which in fact is reflected to our way of life, which was from warring tribes unto the society of law abiding people who believe in peaceful co-existence.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 08:12 PM   #230
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I do know Portugal once controlled Bahrain. But generally the only territory they tended to control in East Africa was Mozambique which stayed Portugues until independence. Spain never had anything in East Africa unless you count the time that the Spanish and Portuguese crown united for 60 years.

When it comes to the Philippines, there were internal and external forces that tried to overthrow the Spanish but the Spanish had the support of the Pampangans and some other Filipino tribes. During the early Spanish years they even ahd the support of Japanese Catholics who lived in Manila since they were not really welcomed in Japan. During the Chinese revolt in 1603, the high walls and guns held back the Chinese crowds that were attacking. The Spanish had the support of the Japanese Catholics. The Chinese had high losses but they might have prevailed if not for the Pampangans who entered the fight on the side of the Spanish. The Pampangans also helped the Spanish in defending against other invaders.


Spanish controlled Manila relied on agriculture from Pampanga province just outside of Manila. So they tended to treat the Pampangans well.



Source - From Datus Descended


Modern information on the Pampangans
The spanish started the "revolt". They began spreading a rumor after three chinese officials visited the islands and asked about islands with mountains of gold that they heard about. They then left thephilippines and the spanish spread a rumor that they were part of a invasion force and that china was planning to take over the philippines, so they began rounding up chinese into groups and planning to kill them. The chinese responding by massacring the spanish who were trying to apprehend them, and mounting their heads on poles throughout manila. After fierce fighting inside and outside of the city between japanese, filipinos, and spanish against chinese, and since the chinese were outnumbered by thousands, around 25,000 were massacred.

Chinese Migrations, with Special Reference to Labor Conditions - Da Chen - Google Books

Everyone's History: A Reader-friendly World History of War, Bravery, Slavery ... - John H. Chambers - Google Books

There were chinese living in luzon and manila since they first started trading before the spanish came. There were no rebellions or massacres between chinese and the people of luzon under its local kingdoms like sulayman rajah.

Census of the Philippine Islands: taken under the direction of the ... - United States. Bureau of the Census, Joseph Prentiss Sanger, Henry Gannett, Victor Hugo Olmsted, United States. Philippine Commission (1899-1900), United States. Philippine Comm

The rajah granted an area for chinese to stay, and the manila area was about to become islamisized if the spanish hadn't invaded.


The Cambridge History of China: Volume 8, The Ming Dynasty - Denis C. Twitchett, Frederick W. Mote - Google Books

China and Maritime Europe, 1500-1800: Trade, Settlement, Diplomacy, and Missions - John E. Wills, Jr - Google Books

The filipino historian Gregorio F. Zaide described spain's war against sulyaman as a "crusade"

Philippine history and civilization - Gregorio F. Zaide - Google Books

Philippine Political and Cultural History: The Philippines since pre-Spanish ... - Gregorio F. Zaide - Google Books

The Philippines since pre-Spanish times.-v. 2. The Philippines since the ... - Gregorio F. Zaide - Google Books

Their war against the mindanao moros was also a crusade

The inhabitants of the Philippines - Frederic Henry Read Sawyer - Google Books

The spanish expedition to manila under legazpi wanted to convert china to catholocism and stick their nose into the china trade, they were the ones who wanted to buy products from china.

Dictionary of Ming Biography 1368-1644..: M-Z. - Association for Asian Studies. Ming Biographical History Project Committee, L. Carrington (Luther Carrington) Goodrich, 房兆楹 - Google Books

Generation of Giants: The Story of the Jesuits in China in the Last Decades ... - George H. Dunne - Google Books

State And Society In The Philippines - Patricio N. Abinales, Donna J. Amoroso, Donna J. Amoroso - Google Books

Spanish Experience in Taiwan 1626-1642: The Baroque Ending of a Renaissance ... - Josť Eugenio Borao Mateo - Google Books

The muslims in the philippines were already advanced, they had culverin cannons

The Philippines Under Spain: (1564-1573) The Legaspi expedition conquest and ... - National Trust for Historical and Cultural Preservation of the Philippines - Google Books

The Philippines Under Spain: (1564-1573) The Legaspi expedition conquest and ... - National Trust for Historical and Cultural Preservation of the Philippines - Google Books

Spain had also planned a military invasion of china from the philippines, to force all of china to convert to catholocism. The spanish king supported the idea.

Ancestors, Virgins, and Friars: Christianity As a Local Religion in Late ... - Eugenio Menegon - Google Books

The Manila-Acapulco Galleons: The Treasure Ships of the Pacific With an ... - Shirley Fish - Google Books

East Asia at the Center: Four Thousand Years of Engagement With the World - Professor Warren I Cohen - Google Books

Go look up Francisco Varo, he and other spanish dominican monks were operating in china and trying to convert chinese. the domincans almost all operated from the phillipines, where they learned chinese to proselytize in china. Unlike the jesuits, they hated chinese culture and confucianism, look up "chinese rites controversy".

China was already paranoid about a jesuit led portuguese invasion (although that plot was just a rumour)

Biographical Dictionary of Christian Missions - Gerald Harry Anderson - Google Books

China and Maritime Europe, 1500-1800: Trade, Settlement, Diplomacy, and Missions - John E. Wills, Jr - Google Books

Spain also introduced the noxious drug tobacco to china

Smoke: A Global History of Smoking Around the World - Professor Sander L Gilman - Google Books

The Moros had public education and centralized states. The northern philippines was going to become like that under sulayman rajah, what did the spanish bring that wan't there? Is monogamy the only answer?

Last edited by deke; November 20th, 2012 at 08:33 PM.
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