Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > European History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

European History European History Forum - Western and Eastern Europe including the British Isles, Scandinavia, Russia


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 21st, 2012, 02:08 AM   #231

dagul's Avatar
Rabbit of Wormhole
 
Joined: Mar 2012
From: In the bag of ecstatic squirt
Posts: 9,496

^It is irrelevant and immaterial who started the revolt for both the Spaniards and the Chinese are foreigners in the Philippines, and the fact that the Filipinos supported and helped the Spaniards axiomatically shows to whom they give their allegiance in view of the goodness that they'd observed and one of which were the virtues about Christianity.

While it was true that the Chinese had been in the Philippines during the reign of Raja Sulayman it was great that such regime was destroyed by the Spaniards because the Filipinos were introduced to better view of the world which is an education that's anchored on Western schools of thought, and such is the reason why the Filipinos have equality in terms of marital rights, the concepts regarding peaceful existence in contrast to the warrior culture of the Moros who hails from the Sutanate of Sulo, which until now they cannot get away from that form of life, so they love to take arms and engage in war, being warriors themselves. Whereas those territories that were colonized by the Spaniards had become civil and peaceful with each other where harmony in the society exists, and I can speak about that since I live in the Philippines and I don't need to post links and sources about them as the living witness of what's happening in my own nation.

If it was Raja Suliman who ruled Manila and other Datu's of the nation, I have this perception that my country will be so divided viewing from the fact that each tribes have their own language or dialect and such is manifested in the Philippine culture today where a language like Bicol have different variations of dialect, and so with Visayan and Waray language. The Filipino language is in fact Tagalog which does not represent the language that's spoken by Kapangpangan, the Pangpage˝o, the Ilocano, the Ilongo, the Chabacano, Cebuano etc. In all honesty, there was really a necessity of some outside force to unify the fractured tribes of my nation, and the Chinese who were selfish with sharing their own culture to the Filipinos are inept to do that. It was the Spanish conquerors of my nation who created a peaceful society that respects the rule of the law.
dagul is offline  
Remove Ads
Old November 21st, 2012, 10:42 AM   #232
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,034

Quote:
Originally Posted by dagul View Post
^It is irrelevant and immaterial who started the revolt for both the Spaniards and the Chinese are foreigners in the Philippines, and the fact that the Filipinos supported and helped the Spaniards axiomatically shows to whom they give their allegiance in view of the goodness that they'd observed and one of which were the virtues about Christianity.

While it was true that the Chinese had been in the Philippines during the reign of Raja Sulayman it was great that such regime was destroyed by the Spaniards because the Filipinos were introduced to better view of the world which is an education that's anchored on Western schools of thought, and such is the reason why the Filipinos have equality in terms of marital rights, the concepts regarding peaceful existence in contrast to the warrior culture of the Moros who hails from the Sutanate of Sulo, which until now they cannot get away from that form of life, so they love to take arms and engage in war, being warriors themselves. Whereas those territories that were colonized by the Spaniards had become civil and peaceful with each other where harmony in the society exists, and I can speak about that since I live in the Philippines and I don't need to post links and sources about them as the living witness of what's happening in my own nation.

If it was Raja Suliman who ruled Manila and other Datu's of the nation, I have this perception that my country will be so divided viewing from the fact that each tribes have their own language or dialect and such is manifested in the Philippine culture today where a language like Bicol have different variations of dialect, and so with Visayan and Waray language. The Filipino language is in fact Tagalog which does not represent the language that's spoken by Kapangpangan, the Pangpage˝o, the Ilocano, the Ilongo, the Chabacano, Cebuano etc. In all honesty, there was really a necessity of some outside force to unify the fractured tribes of my nation, and the Chinese who were selfish with sharing their own culture to the Filipinos are inept to do that. It was the Spanish conquerors of my nation who created a peaceful society that respects the rule of the law.
I am not talking about chinese culture or chinese influence, i have indicated many times here that it would have been an islamic, pan malay civilization which would have taken over the philippines. Ther sultunate of malacca, sulu, and other sultunates id not use chinese script or religion.

http://www.sabrizain.org/malaya/library/connections.pdf

Quote:
Let's start with the Filipino imagination of Pan-Malay identity. Historically, this was strongly presented in the political visions of Jose Rizal, a national hero of the Philippines who lived in the nineteenth century. He led the nationalistic propagandist movement and supported opposition to the Spanish authorities. Responding to Spanish perceptions that Malay Filipinos were inferior, he formed a secret group in Paris to liberate all Malay people from colonisers, including those in Malaya, Indonesia and Borneo (Alonto 2003:188). A similar view was expressed by his contemporary, Apolinario Mabini, whose ideas influenced the Filipino Revolution. He saw the Revolution as a liberation of the Malay people, and aspired for the creation of a co-federation of Asian states, sharing Malay culture and civilisation (Alonto 2003:189). Pan-Malayness was then explicitly expressed by Wenceslao Quinto Vinzons in the early twentieth century. He led student activist movements in the University of the Philippines and set up the Pan Malayan Union (Perhempoenan Orang Melayoe) whose motto was Malaya Irredenta (Malaya Unredeemed). This had members from the Philippines, Thailand, the Malay Peninsula, and Polynesia (Alonto 2003:190). The group used Malay language for secret ritual practice, promoted study of the Malay race, and aimed to develop a sentiment of unity.
deke is offline  
Old November 21st, 2012, 10:52 AM   #233
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,034

Quote:
Originally Posted by dagul View Post
^It is irrelevant and immaterial who started the revolt for both the Spaniards and the Chinese are foreigners in the Philippines, and the fact that the Filipinos supported and helped the Spaniards axiomatically shows to whom they give their allegiance in view of the goodness that they'd observed and one of which were the virtues about Christianity.

While it was true that the Chinese had been in the Philippines during the reign of Raja Sulayman it was great that such regime was destroyed by the Spaniards because the Filipinos were introduced to better view of the world which is an education that's anchored on Western schools of thought, and such is the reason why the Filipinos have equality in terms of marital rights, the concepts regarding peaceful existence in contrast to the warrior culture of the Moros who hails from the Sutanate of Sulo, which until now they cannot get away from that form of life, so they love to take arms and engage in war, being warriors themselves. Whereas those territories that were colonized by the Spaniards had become civil and peaceful with each other where harmony in the society exists, and I can speak about that since I live in the Philippines and I don't need to post links and sources about them as the living witness of what's happening in my own nation.

If it was Raja Suliman who ruled Manila and other Datu's of the nation, I have this perception that my country will be so divided viewing from the fact that each tribes have their own language or dialect and such is manifested in the Philippine culture today where a language like Bicol have different variations of dialect, and so with Visayan and Waray language. The Filipino language is in fact Tagalog which does not represent the language that's spoken by Kapangpangan, the Pangpage˝o, the Ilocano, the Ilongo, the Chabacano, Cebuano etc. In all honesty, there was really a necessity of some outside force to unify the fractured tribes of my nation, and the Chinese who were selfish with sharing their own culture to the Filipinos are inept to do that. It was the Spanish conquerors of my nation who created a peaceful society that respects the rule of the law.
I am not talking about chinese culture or chinese influence, i have indicated many times here that it would have been an islamic, pan malay civilization which would have taken over the philippines. Ther sultunate of malacca, sulu, and other sultunates id not use chinese script or religion.

http://www.sabrizain.org/malaya/library/connections.pdf

Quote:
Let's start with the Filipino imagination of Pan-Malay identity. Historically, this was strongly presented in the political visions of Jose Rizal, a national hero of the Philippines who lived in the nineteenth century. He led the nationalistic propagandist movement and supported opposition to the Spanish authorities. Responding to Spanish perceptions that Malay Filipinos were inferior, he formed a secret group in Paris to liberate all Malay people from colonisers, including those in Malaya, Indonesia and Borneo (Alonto 2003:188). A similar view was expressed by his contemporary, Apolinario Mabini, whose ideas influenced the Filipino Revolution. He saw the Revolution as a liberation of the Malay people, and aspired for the creation of a co-federation of Asian states, sharing Malay culture and civilisation (Alonto 2003:189). Pan-Malayness was then explicitly expressed by Wenceslao Quinto Vinzons in the early twentieth century. He led student activist movements in the University of the Philippines and set up the Pan Malayan Union (Perhempoenan Orang Melayoe) whose motto was Malaya Irredenta (Malaya Unredeemed). This had members from the Philippines, Thailand, the Malay Peninsula, and Polynesia (Alonto 2003:190). The group used Malay language for secret ritual practice, promoted study of the Malay race, and aimed to develop a sentiment of unity.
deke is offline  
Old November 21st, 2012, 02:00 PM   #234
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,034

Maphilindo

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
deke is offline  
Old November 21st, 2012, 04:39 PM   #235
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19,934

Quote:
Originally Posted by deke View Post
May you mean this one?

Click the image to open in full size.
sylla1 is offline  
Old November 21st, 2012, 05:11 PM   #236
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,034

Thats it, I tried embedding it as a link.
deke is offline  
Old November 21st, 2012, 05:27 PM   #237
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,034

When China encountered advance civilizations, it behaved differently than spain. China sinicized and introduced chinese culture, writing, confucianism and centralized state control and law to tribal peoples who did not reach a level of "civilization", like the tribal peoples in Yunnan province, and the vietnamese and koreans when the han dynasty conquered vietnam and northern korea. They had no writing and relatively primitive states.

Peoples like the jurchen, khitan, tangut, and japanese also absorbed chinese culture and were partially sinicized because they lacked writing and the other things i mentioned.

When china encountered people who already had states, writing, and advanced civiliaation, they never forced them to sinicize or change to chinese. When the tocharian city states in the tarim were ruled by the han dynasty and tang dynasty, they already were in the orbit of west asian religions like manichaesm and had scripts derived from aramaic. They had their own kinds of state and government. China never forced them to sinicize.

China also encountered the indic hindu kingdoms like champa and the malacca sultunate, and developed strong relations to them during the ming dynasty when they converted to islam. China never tried to force them to accept chinese culture, because they had advanced states and civilizations already like arabic jawi and indic scripts, islamic religion and government. They became part of the tributary system to china and relied on china for protection against enemies but weren't forced into china's cultural orbit.

burma, thailand, laos and cambodia used indic script and had cultures derived from indian civilization and china did not try to make them accept chinese script or culture.

China found advanced and literate states and civilizations in the philippines before the spanish came. They found indic kingdoms with civilizations and titles derived from indian culture like rajah, and with scripts like Baybayin, these civilizations were also transitioning to islam, malay culture and arabic acript, and sulu and mindanao made these transformations while the spanish knocked out the kingdoms in luzon before they could do so.

When china entered relations with sulu and the kingdoms of luzon china did not try to force chinese culture or civilization or script on them. The ruler of sulu paduka batara (this was pre islam) even visited china under the yongle emperor and died in china where . After sulu and mindanao became muslim, chinese merchants continued to visit the place and have good relations with the muslim sultanates.

The chinese government in the ming dynasty maintained offices which produced multilingual dictionaries for chinese to jurchen, chinese to persian, chinese to turki, chinese to and other language as well, this continued into the qing, for the purpose of diplomatic tributary relations with other states.

The spanish on the other hand, behaved totally differently than china. When they saw an advanced civilization, they wanted to destroy it, wage a crusade and replace it with catholocism, and spanish language and culture with complete spanish rule over the area, not to be satisfied with just a protectorate.

The spanish destroyed the advanced and literate aztec and maya states, and also the inca empire. They imposed spanish language and catholocism the entire latin america along with the portuguese. Tons of mayan books were burned by spanish priests, including valuable scientific texts. Traditional cultures were destroyed and replaced with spanish language and culture.
deke is offline  
Old November 22nd, 2012, 01:54 PM   #238

dagul's Avatar
Rabbit of Wormhole
 
Joined: Mar 2012
From: In the bag of ecstatic squirt
Posts: 9,496

Quote:
Originally Posted by deke View Post
I am not talking about chinese culture or chinese influence, i have indicated many times here that it would have been an islamic, pan malay civilization which would have taken over the philippines. Ther sultunate of malacca, sulu, and other sultunates id not use chinese script or religion.

http://www.sabrizain.org/malaya/library/connections.pdf
That is exactly the reason why I marvel the Spanish colonization of the Philippines in view of the preservation of the warrior culture of the Sultanate of Sulo, maintaining the tradition of raiding the neighboring villages which they'd done long before the Spaniards colonized the country. If the Philippines would had been Islamic, then my nation shall be suffering from gender inequality wherein the marital rights between the man and the woman shall not be the same, and that is a disgrace over the observance of the human rights and civil liberties that my country have right now.

I am glad that my country is a civil law jurisdiction and adopted certain concepts of the Roman Laws and by the arrival of the Americans the Anglo-Saxon Laws instead of the Sharia Laws, because I am pro libertarian ideals and I am proud of the concepts like the presumption of innocence and the removal of death penalty in my nation which are of Western influx in the fields of law and governance, and how it is great that your idea of Islamic pan Malay civilization did not happen in my nation, so I live in a place where people can go to motels during Valentines day without the fear of getting arrested unlike in Malaysia or Indonesia.

Yes, the Philippines is not in Europe or the U.S. but my country is rock and roll and that's because of more than 300 years of Spanish colonization and barely 50 years of American control over the country.
dagul is offline  
Old November 22nd, 2012, 02:50 PM   #239

dagul's Avatar
Rabbit of Wormhole
 
Joined: Mar 2012
From: In the bag of ecstatic squirt
Posts: 9,496

Quote:
China found advanced and literate states and civilizations in the philippines before the spanish came. They found indic kingdoms with civilizations and titles derived from indian culture like rajah, and with scripts like Baybayin, these civilizations were also transitioning to islam, malay culture and arabic acript, and sulu and mindanao made these transformations while the spanish knocked out the kingdoms in luzon before they could do so.
That's true that before the Spaniards arrived in the Philippines that culture was existing and there was caste system and there were to kinds of slaves and they were the alipin sagigilid and alipin namamahay, the common people who were known as Timawa, and the royal class as the Maharlika. I don't find that caste system and maintenance of slaves to be in keeping with the concepts of equity as espoused by Christianity that created a better society in the country.

Quote:
The spanish on the other hand, behaved totally differently than china. When they saw an advanced civilization, they wanted to destroy it, wage a crusade and replace it with catholocism, and spanish language and culture with complete spanish rule over the area, not to be satisfied with just a protectorate.

The spanish destroyed the advanced and literate aztec and maya states, and also the inca empire. They imposed spanish language and catholocism the entire latin america along with the portuguese. Tons of mayan books were burned by spanish priests, including valuable scientific texts. Traditional cultures were destroyed and replaced with spanish language and culture.
You call human sacrifice of the Aztecs as advance civilization? I do agree with you that they excelled in the fields of mathematics and architecture but, human sacrifice was horrible.
dagul is offline  
Old November 23rd, 2012, 01:53 PM   #240
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,034

Quote:
Originally Posted by dagul View Post
That's true that before the Spaniards arrived in the Philippines that culture was existing and there was caste system and there were to kinds of slaves and they were the alipin sagigilid and alipin namamahay, the common people who were known as Timawa, and the royal class as the Maharlika. I don't find that caste system and maintenance of slaves to be in keeping with the concepts of equity as espoused by Christianity that created a better society in the country.

You call human sacrifice of the Aztecs as advance civilization? I do agree with you that they excelled in the fields of mathematics and architecture but, human sacrifice was horrible.
This was also horrible

Basque Witch Trials (Spain/Basque Country, 1609 - 1611) - Witchcraft
deke is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > European History

Tags
colonial, colonies, european, power, treated, worsts


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How did the colonisation of Africa give European countries power? kate1001 History Help 5 November 18th, 2012 02:16 PM
What would it have been like had India been ruled by any other colonial power? St. Anselm Speculative History 25 March 23rd, 2012 10:52 AM
Which European nation has the most power. rory1497 European History 85 May 7th, 2011 08:45 PM
Why are Chinese Dynasties treated differently from European ones? Kiwi Asian History 31 November 2nd, 2010 09:19 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.