Eastern Influences on Europeans - Page 7 - Historum

**antonina** · April 21st, 2012, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenblood07

Islamic Civilization influenced the West directly , and in many ways.

Absolutely. And vice versa - Europe was founded on the Judeo/Christian tradition and it's this tradition that directly influenced Islam

**Belloc** · April 21st, 2012, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazyman

The first Arab empires were Caliphates, the Rashiduns being nowhere near an absolutist monarchy . After that the system became ever more feudal with Sultans starting to appear , taking a cue from the Romans and Sassanids before them .

Quote:

Originally Posted by arras

Concept of absolutist monarchy was not developed in post Roman Europe before 17th ct. That is basically beginning of modern era. It hardly could have been influenced by Arabs.

Sorry for my late reply, this is my main source for this claim:

Quote:

Several factors in European history just prior to the sixteenth century had combined to arrest the development of medieval constitutional government, mediveal magna cartas, and medieval parliaments, and to give rise to monarchial absolutism. The crusades had had something to do with it. They brought Christian rulers of the West into contact with Moslem and Byzantine rule in the East; and from the East, the ancient traditional seat of absolutism, the West derived oriental notions about the scope and method of government.

Carlton J.H. Hayes, Modern Europe to 1870 pg.24

Lazyman · April 21st, 2012, 09:01 AM

He bases that on? There were no absoloutist monarchies in the area . Sorry .

Hatty · April 21st, 2012, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Several factors in European history just prior to the sixteenth century had combined to arrest the development of medieval constitutional government, mediveal magna cartas, and medieval parliaments, and to give rise to monarchial absolutism. The crusades had had something to do with it. They brought Christian rulers of the West into contact with Moslem and Byzantine rule in the East; and from the East, the ancient traditional seat of absolutism, the West derived oriental notions about the scope and method of government.

It's pretty peculiar to posit the Crusades as an influence on governmental development. Are there examples of countries at war seeing the light and suddenly deciding to imitate or emulate the other side? Unless of course the Crusades weren't the bloodbath they're supposed to be. Trading missions perhaps?

**Belloc** · April 21st, 2012, 09:33 AM

The crusades brought the West into greater contact with the cultures of the East, and this even influenced the development of courtly love from Arabic love poetry for example. Averrorism was hotly debated among Western scholars too to give another example. So why is the influences of political ideas out of the question? And Hayes lists other factors that lead to the rise of absolutism.

Lazyman · April 21st, 2012, 09:44 AM

You are really not making any sense, can you even name one absolutist monarchy from the middle east?

**Belloc** · April 21st, 2012, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazyman

You are really not making any sense, can you even name one absolutist monarchy from the middle east?

What's so hard to understand here about cross-cultural contacts and influences? And I would say the Byzantine Empire counts for this time period(which even influenced Islamic political thinkers IIRC), the Ottoman Emire, and Saudi Arabia is a contemporary example of such.

**Belloc** · April 21st, 2012, 10:26 AM

Kirialax can provide greater detail, but even the character of Byzantine rule was the result of "eastern" influences upon the empire, particularly Aurelian adopting the notion of sacred monarchy from the Syrians in the 3rd century. Lazyman himself admitted the influence of Sassanid ideals too.

Now in regards to the Byzantines, I know that many of the Holy Roman Emperors in the West envied their power and prestige and sought to emulate it in the West but had to contend with the Papacy, which for a while had the power and prestige to withstand their power. With the weakening of Papal power by the late Medieval period, plus the influx of further Byzantine influence after 1453 combined with contact with the Islamic world because of the Crusades and Reconquista in Spain, this certainly would've had influence on the West. Muslims had adopted many elements of Byzantine administration after conquering its territories, and Islamic philosophers adopted elements of Plantonic political theory as well. Give a rather short historical summary of this complex process.