Did Christianity save Europe from the dark ages? - Page 4 - Historum

**Belloc** · April 26th, 2012, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

What unit of measurement does one measure sceintific advancement in?

Good question, maybe our resident expert can explain it to us. I would figure if we could measure it, there'd be a comparative decline during the "Greek Dark Ages" of 1200 B.C. and the early Medieval "dark ages".

0311USM · April 26th, 2012, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

Which means we still have them, older documents recycled into book bindings and covers are relatively common.

We have them? excuse me?
We have pieces of paper with religious scribbling all over them. Remnants of the manuscript have been found recently.
What good was it that useful knowledge wasnt implemented all those centuries ago?

The church unknowingly supressed the knowledge of Archimedes works in Algebra. The Arabs were equally as religious but they still found room for Greek contributions to math and science.

Dark age Europe didnt even have the concept of zero till Arab thinkers implemented it.

0311USM · April 26th, 2012, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

Which means we still have them, older documents recycled into book bindings and covers are relatively common.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belloc

Good question, maybe our resident expert can explain it to us. I would figure if we could measure it, there'd be a comparative decline during the "Greek Dark Ages" of 1200 B.C. and the early Medieval "dark ages".

yea **** you too wise ass

**DreamWeaver** · April 26th, 2012, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0311USM

We have them? excuse me?
We have pieces of paper with religious scribbling all over them. Remnants of the manuscript have been found recently.
What good was it that useful knowledge wasnt implemented all those centuries ago?

The church unknowingly supressed the knowledge of Archimedes works in Algebra. The Arabs were equally as religious but they still found room for Greek contributions to math and science.

Dark age Europe didnt even have the concept of zero till Arab thinkers implemented it.

Yes we have them, they exist. I can excuse you if you wish, not sure why you would want me to though.

Who is going to implement them through what means?

I have very little knowledge of theoretical physics or material engineering, that knowledge is held by others. It is only fortunate that we have a system and infrastructure where their knowledge might be disseminated to provide me with a longer lasting light bulb.

And the Arab thinkers didnt implement it until the Indian thinkers thought of it, whats your point exactly?

**SomeGuy** · April 26th, 2012, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0311USM

yea **** you too wise ass

There is no need to be upset.

**Louise C** · April 26th, 2012, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0311USM

Golden age of Islam took place during that same time sure...
Arabs theorizing about splitting atoms and Europeans launching crusade after crusade in search of holy wood believed to be the part of the "true cross."

Advances did take place...just not in Europe.

Of course advances took place in Europe. There were technological advances in the middle ages, in building for example, and in things like metalwork, the blast furnace was developed for instance, and spectacles, the mechanical clock, etc. The first universities were founded. See Cathedral, Forge and Waterwheel, Technology and Invention in the Middle Ages by Frances and Joseoh Gies.

The crusades were not launched to discover the true cross. They were launched to protect Christian pilgrims who were under attack from Muslims.

zwolf1215 · April 26th, 2012, 10:56 AM

Christianity did not save Western Europe from the dark ages nor was it the reason for the dark ages. What saved Europe was the interaction between Crusaders and Italian traders with Byzantium and the Middle East. Muslim Spain also played a role. The reason for the dark ages was the destruction of classical culture by various barbarian tribes.

**dagul** · April 26th, 2012, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iolo

My own feeling is that the classical world - because of slavery and various other influences - was at a technological dead end and had to, so to speak, step back and re-organise the mode of production into early feudalism. Meanwhile the Church (or rather churches) preserved much of the culture and Islam some of the science. I can't see how much could have survived without 'religion'. How much do we really know, for instance, about pre-Christian 'England'? Without some sort of literary scholarship, what is there before archaeology and genetics?

I agree with you about all of this post.

Doctor Imperialism · April 26th, 2012, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0311USM

I tought the overall perception was that the deterioration of the old system led to the end of the Dark Ages. More precisely the Roman Empire and it's grip.
I highly doubt Christianity can get any credit for something it likely caused to begin with.