 | | European History European History Forum - Western and Eastern Europe including the British Isles, Scandinavia, Russia |
May 7th, 2012, 11:27 AM
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#21 | | None shall pass!
Joined: Aug 2010 From: Somewhere in France(for now) Posts: 6,554 | Quote:
Originally Posted by arras Immigrants will also one day claim country where they live as their home. Then they will become more assertive in their demands. That may lead to tension. If that will cause civil war I do not know. Hopefully not. but mass immigration is not without risks.
Moreover immigrants are not same. Some ethnicities can live along each other without problem, other can not. Immigration is not black or white, good or bad. It should be regulated and allowed with come care. I am not for closing Europe hermetically from outside world. But I am also against unrestricted mass immigration. | but that takes years, centuries even before a settled ethnic group begins to see the land as there is and whether or not there will be ethnic tension depends on how those first etnic groups got the land, did they force the natives off it by war and colonization or was it a simple migration. that will tell you whether you can expect tension or not in the future.
i definitely agree with your opinion on immigration. regulations have to be put in place to keep it under the control yet there is definity no need to totally close your borders to it.
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May 7th, 2012, 08:37 PM
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#22 | | Archivist
Joined: Jan 2012 From: Milky Way Posts: 103 | Quote:
Originally Posted by tjadams Europe should embrace other rich cultures, languages, religions and people.
The US is a nation of over 300 million-melting pot of cultures, languages and people. See, we're ok and have never had social problems. Right? 
You guys over there will be fine. Just welcome them and embrace. | I think many are mistaken about "melting pots" , melting pots always existed and now exist in majority countries: they are called cities. Difference between U.S. of A and other countries, is that U.S. of A openly embraces such philosophy.
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May 7th, 2012, 08:40 PM
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#23 | | Archivist
Joined: Jan 2012 From: Milky Way Posts: 103 | Quote:
Originally Posted by jeroenrottgering With the rise of immigration and on the same time the rise of populist parties like Front National (France), Party for Freedom (the Netherlands), Danish People's Party (Denmark) etc etc, do you think several European countries will eventually fall into civil war between etnic Europeans and the so called 'new' Europeans? | More like Europeans would capitulate in such scenario. European society had gone through major changes in the last century (and yes before WW2), and at the moment it is totally pacifistic. You could check polls of how many men would be willing to serve under arms in case of war. In Lithuania as far as I remember it was only 40%.
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May 7th, 2012, 08:50 PM
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#24 | | Epicurean
Joined: Mar 2009 From: Texas Posts: 24,311 | Quote:
Originally Posted by ricka I think many are mistaken about "melting pots" , melting pots always existed and now exist in majority countries: they are called cities. Difference between U.S. of A and other countries, is that U.S. of A openly embraces such philosophy. | If you feel this way, check out the local, state and national laws passed
by the US government since the founding of the nation on immigrants.
You will see there was/is not great clutching to the bosom of
foreigners unless they fit a certain carefully crafted mold.
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May 7th, 2012, 09:03 PM
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#25 | | Cynical Optimist
Joined: Jul 2011 From: Australia Posts: 2,384 | Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck If Europe is such a disaster, why are immigrants still trying to enter it? I mean really, get a grip. I'm sure many Africans would exchange their plush mud huts for the disaster zone called 'Europe'. | Even the most cursory examination of this issue provides ample proof that it's not a disaster for the third worlders, in fact it's a utopia where the state provides luxuy undreamed of by the mud hut mob. Unforunately it's the Europeans who are seeing their countries being populated by aggressive immigrants with an entitlement mentaility and no intention of integrating into the host society, but rather recreating the society they left behind but with a more comfortable lifestyle funded by the Europeans.
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May 7th, 2012, 09:27 PM
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#26 | | Archivist
Joined: Oct 2010 From: Amsterdam, EU Posts: 129 | Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgarion Even the most cursory examination of this issue provides ample proof that it's not a disaster for the third worlders, in fact it's a utopia where the state provides luxuy undreamed of by the mud hut mob. Unforunately it's the Europeans who are seeing their countries being populated by aggressive immigrants with an entitlement mentaility and no intention of integrating into the host society, but rather recreating the society they left behind but with a more comfortable lifestyle funded by the Europeans. | The problem is with the European lifestyle, not migrants!!! They simply make it clear that the welfare state as it is designed today is flawed, it has nothing to do with integration, besides when it comes to entitlement, Europeans do pretty well on that level themselves. They expect education, health, labour security, often a job and a house and all that provided directly by the state.
There lies the problem, not with migrants. The nanny state is necessarily closed.
What right has society to order me who I can and can't mary or hire or pick as a tenant or a provider? It's a basic problem of human liberty that is traded off for some low level education and poor health care.
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May 7th, 2012, 09:48 PM
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#27 | | Historian
Joined: Dec 2009 From: rangiora Posts: 2,832 | Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgarion ... countries being populated by aggressive immigrants with an entitlement mentaility and no intention of integrating into the host society, ... | Ignorance on the internet is ubiquitous, but this really is breathtaking.
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May 8th, 2012, 12:31 AM
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#28 | | Historian
Joined: Apr 2010 From: Slovakia Posts: 8,975 | Quote:
Originally Posted by maharbbal What right has society to order me who I can and can't mary or hire or pick as a tenant or a provider? It's a basic problem of human liberty that is traded off for some low level education and poor health care. | Because you do not live on and deserted island. You are using benefits of that society so society have right to impose some rules on you. Not because it likes to order you around but because those benefits would not be possible without rules. You use institution of that society, its infrastructure, its law, its protection, its economy, its jobs, its culture. Did you build roads you use every day yourself?
If you have any doubt about what that society provide you than resettle on to deserted island and see what will you be missing.
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May 8th, 2012, 01:04 AM
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#29 | | Cynical Optimist
Joined: Jul 2011 From: Australia Posts: 2,384 | Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck Ignorance on the internet is ubiquitous, but this really is breathtaking. | Why not try providing a decent argument instead of your usual pathetic ad homs? | | |
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May 8th, 2012, 01:14 AM
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#30 | | Suspended indefinitely
Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 925 |
@Belgarion
Australians are also immigrants in Australia. The real inhabitants were aboriginals. I don't see why others with a different culture or religion should adapt to you.
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