Cultural civil war in Europe - Historum

**jeroenrottgering** · May 6th, 2012, 05:11 PM

With the rise of immigration and on the same time the rise of populist parties like Front National (France), Party for Freedom (the Netherlands), Danish People's Party (Denmark) etc etc, do you think several European countries will eventually fall into civil war between etnic Europeans and the so called 'new' Europeans?

**tjadams** · May 6th, 2012, 05:23 PM

Europe should embrace other rich cultures, languages, religions and people.
The US is a nation of over 300 million-melting pot of cultures, languages and people. See, we're ok and have never had social problems. Right?

You guys over there will be fine. Just welcome them and embrace.

**irishcrusader95** · May 6th, 2012, 05:29 PM

i think its an overreaction that there are too many immigrants these days and the fear that they are erasing the adoptive country's culture. there was a same fear during the early 20th century and that lead to the eugenics movement. i can't ever see things getting so bad that things turn violent between ethnic groups.

**okamido** · May 6th, 2012, 06:00 PM

I don't think it will work there as it works here. I am afraid that Jeroen's concern/ question may actually come to pass one day.

Unlike the youngling United States, these European countries have histories that go back 2000+ years. Some may not like the watering down of that history or their cultures.

**Bismarck** · May 6th, 2012, 06:01 PM

Agree with the general consensus (of two ppl, so far.*) 'Immigration' is an issue only for those looking for scapegoats and easy targets. Any serious consideration of the topic quickly shows the rhetoric to be fundamentally flawed.

*written before Okamido had expressed his alarmist concerns.

**Belloc** · May 6th, 2012, 06:02 PM

I think the whole Eurabia hysteria is a bit overhyped, although it may pose serious issues for Europe down the road. I think a major problem with these kinds of discussions is that one is forced to choose between two extreme positions of immigration automatically being positive or negative. Serious considerations of different nuances involved are rarely raised.

**tjadams** · May 6th, 2012, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belloc

I think the whole Eurabia hysteria is a bit overhyped, although it may pose serious issues for Europe down the road.

I agree. Common sense dictates an inevitable clash; ten years, twenty, or
thirty. One side is going to push and the other side will push back.

**okamido** · May 6th, 2012, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bismarck

Agree with the general consensus (of two ppl, so far.*) 'Immigration' is an issue only for those looking for scapegoats and easy targets. Any serious consideration of the topic quickly shows the rhetoric to be fundamentally flawed.

*written before Okamido had expressed his alarmist concerns.

I wouldn't go so far as to declare it alarmist. More like an understanding of how the world has worked since....oh, the beginning of time.

**arras** · May 6th, 2012, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishcrusader95

i can't ever see things getting so bad that things turn violent between ethnic groups.

Did you see Kosovo? What about Northern Ireland then?

**arras** · May 6th, 2012, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belloc

I think a major problem with these kinds of discussions is that one is forced to choose between two extreme positions of immigration automatically being positive or negative. Serious considerations of different nuances involved are rarely raised.

That is correct. Problem is that so far any discussion about negative effects of immigration (which I agree is not black and white therefore have both, positive and negative sides) was ousted out to the periphery of European society and left for extremists. Mainstream was acting as if immigration did not have any negative effects on Europe. And large part of mainstream still refuse to discus it. Anyone who criticise immigration risks to be labelled as extremists, fascist and rasist.