Caracalla

Were the migrations a mass exodus of people forcing the locals to move out to Brittany or Britonia, or was it a smaller number that ended up becoming the ruling class and coexisting with the locals?

Simple question, not sure if the answer will be simple, though. I'm new to this era of history but I understand one of these views is a more traditional one, while the other is more of a modern opinion.

Kotromanic

There's evidence presented in a book by a geneticist named Brian Sykes. The book is and it is also a great read on the era of the petty kingdoms following the invasion.

The genetic evidence is strongly in favor of interpreting the conquest as the work of an elite (Marxist term is "vanguard"?) group of military professionals. I really recommend the book for anyone interested in British history between fifth and eleventh centuries.

Caracalla

Cheers for that

Salah

I know the view that the Anglo-Saxons established themselves as overlords (as opposed to forcing out/annihilating the current population) has been in vogue amongst the last generation or two of scholars.

Apparently there are graves from the era that include both Celtic and Germanic-style jewelry, weaponry, etc. suggesting that there was sufficient harmony between the natives and the newcomers for them to share cemetaries.

Clemmie

Iolo did a good thread on the subject earlier:

http://www.historum.com/medieval-byz...y-britain.html

owsley

I have read Bryan Sykes recently. He seems to distinguish 9c Danes from 5c Anglo Saxons. How would they differ genetically if they're both from the same place? And these people, as well as the Normans, are supposed to be descended from Scandinavia.

betgo

Pretty clearly more than an elite; not like the Norman conquest. Almost no Celtic words in the English language. Probably somewhere in between. Not all Celtic (or whatever they were, as there was pre-Celtic and Roman and Roman Empire descent) were wiped out or forced to leave. Probably substatial influx of Anglo-Saxons while many Celts stayed. Probably marraiges of Anglo-Saxon men and British women.

Bart Dale

Actually, the Saxons and the Danes did not come from the same place. The Angles might have come from near Denmark, but the Saxons I believe were the larger component, and they probrably came from either Germany or the Low Countries (Belgium, Netherlands). Frisians, which is spoken in parts of the Netherlands, is among the closest of the Germanic languages to English. Scandinavians have a different genetic profile than the people of Germany and the Low Countries (Belgium, Netherlands)

The Scandinavian languages (Norwegian, Danish, Swedish) are also part of a different branch of the Germanic language family (North) than English, which is a West Germanic language.

beorna

mtDNA
.....................H HV0+V J... T.... U.... K ...I ..W X2
Belgium....... 40--6-----4--10--22--13--0--1--1
Denmark..... 39--3-----3--12--22--11--1--2--1
England........ 40--4-----9-11--14--10--3--2--1
Germany..... 42--4-----9--11--15---9--3--2--1
Netherlands. 45--8----11-14--16--10--2--2--1
Norway...... 42 --4---12-11--17---7---2--2--1

Barbarossa

Anglic, Saxon, Jute and Frisian blood probably make up just about 1% of modern Englishmen, and the population of Britain as a whole. Englishmen are still overwhelmingly Celtic in origin.