 | | European History European History Forum - Western and Eastern Europe including the British Isles, Scandinavia, Russia | 
June 6th, 2012, 11:06 PM
|
#131 | | Historian
Joined: Apr 2010 From: Slovakia Posts: 8,768 | Quote:
Originally Posted by Ficino  I disagree that it should have been no privatization at all, I think it was necessary for some cases, but not indicated for others. I thoroughly agree that the way in which it was done was a "gigantic state sponsored robbery of public property and massive corruption", and its goal was to enrich even more those who accumulated wealth during the communist regime, mainly by robbing the same state property. They and their children are those who have now the economic and political power, the so called successful, "enterprising", capitalists. | True.
| | | 
| | |
June 6th, 2012, 11:41 PM
|
#132 | | Lecturer
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 386 | Quote:
Originally Posted by arras There is no reason why it should not. It is organization like any other. It certainly is no worst than large shareholder corporation. | Because bureaucrat doing everything by the book and finishing job at 5pm will never be as effective or interested in success as owner. Quote:
Originally Posted by arras There are plenty of examples when it was run effectively. Like Slovakia during WWII. | Its special circumstances. Its like saying that since tank runs so nicely off road its perfect vehicle for average Joe's everyday life. There is myriads of various factors during wartime that are not into play in peacetime. Quote:
Originally Posted by arras It is funny that during times of war or stress, even capitalistic countries resort to directed planed economies. When states need most effectivity out of their economy, they reach for centralised, directed ones. | Same as above. Quote:
Originally Posted by arras And keep our factories running and people employed. Now we have shiny western consumer goods of crappy quality and western leftover food without any nutrition value but we can't afford them anyway as we do not have jobs. | I and most people I know have jobs. Im fed and I can afford my food. I really should eat less come to think of it. So should I assume that in Slovakia most people are starving and unemployed? Quote:
Originally Posted by arras I can not find more tragic example of this than your own country. If we does not count countries were there was war like Moldova. Your economy basically ceased to exist and half of productive population already left country to search jobs in the West. | Our economy is nicely growing for second year now after crisis. What ceased to exist in my country was real estate bubble and overconfident credit market. "Half of productive population" is just wrong. Quote:
Originally Posted by arras And there is no prospect of improvement as West itself plunged in to long crisis (how is that possible bye the way with best economic system in the world? Shouldn't capitalism and free market lead to prosperity?). Not even Eastern block markets and cheap labour is sufficient any more to keep capitalism running. Now we need war.
I have better idea of future for my children than this. | Well I guess Im optimist. And this current crisis is a joke for everyone living in East Europa during 90ties. There's more prosperity then there ever were in Soviet Union. I bet if I could just grab someone from 1985 and drop him here in 2012 he would think hes gone straight to heaven. Assuming hes not a lazy bum with hands growing out of his ass.
| | | |
| | |
June 8th, 2012, 01:29 AM
|
#133 | | Historian
Joined: Apr 2012 From: Romania Posts: 1,569 | Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Lucan Well I guess Im optimist. And this current crisis is a joke for everyone living in East Europa during 90ties. There's more prosperity then there ever were in Soviet Union. I bet if I could just grab someone from 1985 and drop him here in 2012 he would think hes gone straight to heaven. Assuming hes not a lazy bum with hands growing out of his ass. | If you are eager to do anything (I mean anything legal) for earning money and you are an industrious person, there are still enough possibilities for you to have a better living standard comparing to the communist times. But if you want to practice a profession regarded by the system as not being so important, and consequently poorly paid, the truth is other. This is why in certain fields of activity are left now mainly unprepared people, like the wives of some rich guys, who prefer to spend a couple of hours per day in a more practical way than getting bored at home (I refer here especially to the secondary education system).
| | | |
| | |
June 8th, 2012, 04:40 AM
|
#134 | | Lecturer
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 386 | Quote:
Originally Posted by Ficino If you are eager to do anything (I mean anything legal) for earning money and you are an industrious person, there are still enough possibilities for you to have a better living standard comparing to the communist times. But if you want to practice a profession regarded by the system as not being so important, and consequently poorly paid, the truth is other. This is why in certain fields of activity are left now mainly unprepared people, like the wives of some rich guys, who prefer to spend a couple of hours per day in a more practical way than getting bored at home (I refer here especially to the secondary education system). |
That is true, but I don't think that even those people are actually worse off then during communist times. They probbaly feel worse tho, since wealth, besides basic needs, is relative thing. One feels poor or rich mainly by comparing himself with other members of society.
| | | |
| | |
June 8th, 2012, 05:50 AM
|
#135 | | Historian
Joined: Apr 2012 From: Romania Posts: 1,569 | Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Lucan That is true, but I don't think that even those people are actually worse off then during communist times. They probbaly feel worse tho, since wealth, besides basic needs, is relative thing. One feels poor or rich mainly by comparing himself with other members of society. | Actually if I am to refer exclusively to my country, the general situation in the education system is much worse IMO, and this is told by someone who was involved until relatively recent times with such things, and still has close friends working in this system. Do you have an idea about the average salary of a High-School teacher having less than ten years activity? I tell you: it is around 250 EUR per month!
| |
Last edited by Ficino; June 8th, 2012 at 06:15 AM.
| |
| | |
June 8th, 2012, 10:25 AM
|
#136 | | Lecturer
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 386 | Quote:
Originally Posted by Ficino Actually if I am to refer exclusively to my country, the general situation in the education system is much worse IMO, and this is told by someone who was involved until relatively recent times with such things, and still has close friends working in this system. Do you have an idea about the average salary of a High-School teacher having less than ten years activity? I tell you: it is around 250 EUR per month! | The average teacher here probably gets about the same amount. Maybe a bit more. Thats why I find it kinda funny when Greeks moan about their current hardships and "desperation" they are in 
But still - the teachers at your country probably have a roof over their heads and are not starving. Thats about all what communism gave to people anyway.
| | | |
| | |
June 8th, 2012, 10:40 AM
|
#137 | | Golan&Imbarligator
Joined: Dec 2009 From: Romania Posts: 5,921 | Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Lucan
But still - the teachers at your country probably have a roof over their heads and are not starving. Thats about all what communism gave to people anyway. | till when? soon, the new generations(practically not many afford a new flat) will not have
| | | |
| | |
June 8th, 2012, 11:06 AM
|
#138 | | Historian
Joined: Apr 2012 From: Romania Posts: 1,569 | Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Lucan The average teacher here probably gets about the same amount. Maybe a bit more. Thats why I find it kinda funny when Greeks moan about their current hardships and "desperation" they are in
But still - the teachers at your country probably have a roof over their heads and are not starving. Thats about all what communism gave to people anyway. | In what I am concerned, if you would have read some of my post on this forum, you would have seen that I am far from being an admirer of communism, on the contrary. But in contrast to you I am not so enthusiastic about the contemporary capitalist society, here or abroad, which sincerely, for various reasons, I simply detest. I assure you that if they are not starving now, neither they were starving during the communist times, and if you consider normal that someone involved in the education of the future generations is remunerated in such a way, so that now the education system is seriously ill IMO, then I have nothing more to say.
| |
Last edited by Ficino; June 8th, 2012 at 11:13 AM.
| |
| | |
June 8th, 2012, 09:17 PM
|
#139 | | Citizen
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 5 |
Guys, the propaganda that people from the Eastern Bloc "starving" is made by the Westerners so people wouldn't want to join that "communism".
By the way, the closest to the communism idea that humans have reached is the society that existed in Sparta
| | | |
| | |
June 9th, 2012, 01:51 AM
|
#140 | | Historian
Joined: Apr 2012 From: Romania Posts: 1,569 | Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Toad Actually, people are completely capable of taking care of their children's education. In the US private schools are superior to public schools and are only a fraction of the cost. It's generally a poor idea for a free society to really on the gov't to educate the people. | Here there is an important cost difference between State owned schools and private schools, which is not necessary reflected in a corresponding difference re: the quality of education. As long as all the children and young people have the right to education, disregarding their material situation, State owned schools are a necessity. And the teachers are those who provide education, and no one else.
| | | |
| | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode |
Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.
|  |
