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View Poll Results: Who's side are you on?
The Central Powers 86 30.07%
The Triple Entente 116 40.56%
Neither one of them 84 29.37%
Voters: 286. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 8th, 2012, 01:02 AM   #701
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Sounds like a good time to own a villa in Spain. Sensible people, they managed to stay neutral throughout.
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Old December 8th, 2012, 01:22 AM   #702

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Originally Posted by Glowin View Post
Yeah, blame it on the Balkans... if you want to appear uninformed and uneducated.
Balkan's powder keg was used only as a casus belli. A pure convenience. Some might say that the assassination itself was more than welcomed in Austria - Hungary. It could have been easily avoided, but men of power in the monarchy wanted Lord Franz dead.

If you want to look for real reasons for starting, and especially continuing WWI, look elsewhere.
Fair point, but I wasn't blaming anyone. The tensions in the Balkans precipitated the conflict.

Total war was the fault of the Great Powers, and British involvement was the fault of pompous Victorian diplomacy.

But if it hadn't kicked off in 1914, maybe everything is different. Maybe there is a more limited war. Maybe, if the Russian Revolution still happens before the start of Inevitable War I, the triple entente becomes a double entendre. Germany wins, Britain stay out of it, Versailles doesn't happen, so nor do the Nazis.

Rambling speculation, I know, but it is neither uninformed or uneducated to believe that the reason the war happened when it did and in the form it did was due to the shots in Sarajevo.

But I mean no offence and I'm not dishing out blame.
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Old December 8th, 2012, 04:43 AM   #703

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Indeed. There would have been a war anyhow. There was too much tension between the major powers that been building up over several years. Germany was getting into a tight spot, encircled by nations that they had in various ways made their enemies, and feared the increasingly more powerful Russian army.

The shots in Sarajevo were used by the factions of the German military and Junker class to start the war. In the hours leading up to WW1 all the other nations had backed down. But Germany decided to use the situation that had occured, and intentionaly misunderstood the mobilisation of the Russian army, to initiate the war.
You're right. Because of the Keiser's insistance, Austria-Hungary declared war. That's why Germany had to accept the blame clause. Wilhelm persuaded Jozef to declare war on Serbia, with no worries about Russian involvement. He assured him that it will be taken care of. I read that he even took a vacation on a day (or day before) of declaration of war, just to appear uninvolved. And don't get me started on all the A-H preparations for Ferdinand's assassination. Black Hand was used there.

The smell of war was already in the air. In fact, I was reading the article from 1912 a few days ago, where it said that because of the militant politics of the empire, as well as the fear of the new war, a huge number of Germans was heading to big German and Austria-Hungary ports like Trieste and Hamburg to head out to USA. They were escaping incoming conflict. So I guess that even a common man knew what was on the horizon.

Serbs even tried appeasing Austria-Hungary by making themselves pretty much a puppet state in exchange for a port on the Adriatic coast, and a strip of land, with further assurances that it wouldn't be used for military or in any way against Austria-Hungary. They refused.

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Originally Posted by astafjevs View Post
Fair point, but I wasn't blaming anyone. The tensions in the Balkans precipitated the conflict.

Total war was the fault of the Great Powers, and British involvement was the fault of pompous Victorian diplomacy.

But if it hadn't kicked off in 1914, maybe everything is different. Maybe there is a more limited war. Maybe, if the Russian Revolution still happens before the start of Inevitable War I, the triple entente becomes a double entendre. Germany wins, Britain stay out of it, Versailles doesn't happen, so nor do the Nazis.

Rambling speculation, I know, but it is neither uninformed or uneducated to believe that the reason the war happened when it did and in the form it did was due to the shots in Sarajevo.

But I mean no offence and I'm not dishing out blame.
Of course, you're right. The war was bound to happen - if it didn't because of the shot in Sarajevo, then it would be because of some false flag event in Hungary or Ukraine, or massacre of coal miners in Macedonia, or revolution in any country... Any reason whatsoever. It just happened to start because a Serb shot a duke with lots of help from Double Monarchy.
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Old December 8th, 2012, 05:10 AM   #704

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Originally Posted by Mikestone8 View Post
Sounds like a good time to own a villa in Spain. Sensible people, they managed to stay neutral throughout.

But you'd better sell it by the 1930's because these 'sensible' people will then have a very nasty Civil War.
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Old December 8th, 2012, 06:24 AM   #705
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But you'd better sell it by the 1930's because these 'sensible' people will then have a very nasty Civil War.

True - maybe someplace in South America.
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Old December 8th, 2012, 12:36 PM   #706
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Why so? If a fascist government comes to power in France, with anti-German rhetoric, calling the Germans a barbarian race which destroyed France much like it destroyed the Roman Empire and stuff like that, it's very possible. Or, Communist countries vs non-Communist countries. If not for nukes, WW3 would probably have happened between the Eastern Bloc and the West.
I doubt the same thing could ever happen in France. The French are much different than the Germans,
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Old December 8th, 2012, 12:44 PM   #707

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Maybe the presumption that Great Powers of that time (or another time) can manage Balkans to a better long-term outcome than the sovereign states of SE Europe is an error/power projection that looms larger than ethnic divisions themselves?
Who needs the Great Powers, take one Marshall Tito and stir in a lot of vision.
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Old December 8th, 2012, 12:46 PM   #708

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True - maybe someplace in South America.
Just make sure you're out of there by the 60's and 70's.

Bermuda perhaps?

Even better Tasmania!
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Old December 8th, 2012, 12:48 PM   #709

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Originally Posted by Baltis View Post
soooo, you don't seem like one to fall in any 'the war was inevitable' categories.
Lol,

Forgive my outburst, but their is another thread similar to this one in which I do contend that war as inevitable. The Jingoistic Junkers of the German Empire would see to that. But the spark that came from the Balkans could have been avoided. The ruin of the Austro-Hungarian Empire may never have happened. Perhaps instead of a World War we may have had just a Russo-German War or Anglo-German war instead
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Old December 8th, 2012, 01:24 PM   #710

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I doubt the same thing could ever happen in France. The French are much different than the Germans,
*Cough* Vichy France *Cough*
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