jeroenrottgering

What I mean by Rome is that Amsterdam just as Rome was the centre of attention. People looked up to it as the place to be. It was in fact also the centre of the early Dutch Empire. Just as in Rome, law, science and progress were all in it's prime in Amsterdam. Classes hardly existed and it was the so called American dream from transforming yourself from a poor fellow in a rich merchant.

Shure it wasn't the heart of an ancient Empire and on land warfare the Dutch weren't the masters of Europe. But their armies were respected for a long time, just as the Romans were and their navy was extrodinary. But let's us not distract from Amsterdam.

Amsterdam was the economic centre of Europe, and Dutch merchants shipped more grain then all other European merchants combined to Amsterdam to sell it to the rest of Europe. My goal wasn't to say that Amsterdam was a exact copy of Rome, but that it had the reputation and importance of Rome.

Linschoten

It was a prime trading centre, and a prime publishing centre. I don't think most Europeans of the 17th or 18th centuries would have regarded it as a foremost cultural centre; Dutch literature was little read outside the Netherlands, and the forms of art in which the Dutch excelled were not as highly regarded in those days as they are now. The comparison to Rome doesn't seem appropriate for a bourgeois trading city. And it would be no more true that 'classes hardly existed' in the Dutch cities at that time than it would be of Victorian England, even if there were unusual possibilties of social mobility, power was largely exercised by patrician elites.

Pacific_Victory

I think Paris had a better claim to being the central city of Europe during the 17th and 18th centuries.

maharbbal

Sorry for the out-of-topic but that's a good joke.

Amsterdam is sad and close-minded. It is not welcoming to new comers, migrants have been pushed aways in the suburbs, the spirit overall is very stale, little creativeness, the whole thing is dominated by the nanny state. Legally Amsterdam is still a haven for free-spirits but no free-spirit will ever be seen dead in Amsterdam.

Most foreigners who have seen the place in the 60s, 70s, and 80s cannot recognized it and say that between sheer trash and assertive bourgeoisie, there is little left of the place they used to love.

Now A'dam is just an oversized Utrecht

Linschoten

Yes, I'd agree, Paris would have been generally regarded as the prime cultural centre (though looking back, most of the more solid cultural achievements came from elesewhere).

Linschoten

I must remeber that one. (To judge from your location, that tirade evidently came from the heart.)

Frank81

Rome was neither a centre of science, not of economy and not a naval node.

In this sense, Athens, Alexandria, Syracuse and even Tyre or Carthage were closer. All of these cities were superb trade and naval centres, in the case of the Greek cities they were scientific and philosofical centres, in a higher degree than Amsterdam was. Maybe the closer analogy could be a more money centered city like Tyre.

In terms of prestige they were different too, Rome had the prestige of being a civilization paladin, while Amsterdam never could be a light of such kind since Dutch never thought in other thing but in making money.

bartieboy

escuse moi?

As has been said before this is a great generalization.
That's like saying ''All British like tea''.
Ok, maybe that's a bad example...

how about: ''all Americans love MC Donalds''

And I like the comparison that has been made earlier... it is much more like Athens.

irishcrusader95

would agree fully with previous statements that it was more like Athens. what would make a city a Rome of its time would in my belief require being at the center of a huge empire with as the saying gos 'all roads leading to Rome'.

Paris also seems like a closer contender for cultural heart of europe. the fact that by the 18th century french was the language of all upper class people in each european state proves that.

Guaporense

Rome was a center of political power. Amsterdam was an economic and cultural center, more like Athens than Rome.