dimmit

So, I would like to start a conversation on the Battle of Leipzig. I believe it was the largest battle in the world prior to World War I and thus bigger than Waterloo. I believe it is also one of the most important battles in the Napoleonic Wars as the victory lead to abdication of Napoleon and his exile to Elba.

And yet, at least in English texts (and thus from British and American historians), it is often ignored. I believe that part of the reason for this is that the British were not involved in this battle and therefore its significance is not stressed. Also, some may claim that the result was a foregone conclusion given Napoleon's failed invasion of Russia.

But I would suggest that it is very important. Marshall Ponitowski, one of Poland's greatest generals and a massively important ally of the French was killed during the battle. Also, the battle finally united the other great powers in central and eastern Europe against Napoleon.

I must confess that I am somewhat biased about this battle as one of my relatives was involved on the Prussian side. He served as a cavalry officer in a unit of uhlans, although unfortunately I don't know his unit number or really anything else about his involvement except for a story that has been passed down through the family about his favorite horse having its lower jaw shot off during the battle.

Anyway, what are your thoughts on the significance of the Battle of Leipzig? Am I completely off-base on its importance? Why is it not emphasized more in English sources?

And any information anyone has about the Prussian military in the battle and specifically units of uhlans would be much appreciated.

beorna

one of a few huge war memorials we have is those of leipzig

dimmit

I've been there.

I visited during the summer of 2008.

Young Guard

Lucky I always wanted to go there but I can't because I'm too young and not enough money.

jeroenrottgering

First of all Leipzig is the most important battle of the Napoleonic wars. Russia in 1812 gave Napoleon a severe blow, but Leipzig was truely what killed him. After his defeat in Russia Napoleon kept beating his enemies in Europe. Bautzen, Lutzen, Dresden great victories of the year 1813. Austria came even as far as to propose to keep Napoleon on the throne. However his Marshals truely lost their skills it seemed. Napoleon himself admitted he had spoiled them. Nonetheless almost ever conflict they had with the coalition resulted in defeat. This strategy was applied on purpose since the coalition knew their changes on defeating Napoleon personally were small.

Because of this Napoleon's army was decimated more and more and on the battlefield of Leipzig Napoleon had less then half the number of his enemies. This made it possible for the coalition to surround Napoleon. The French fought as lions and Napoleon did his best, but the overwhelming strength was just to much. During the battle itself more coalition troops then troops of the Grande Armée were either killed or wounded. Only by a big mistake from an unknown officer a large part of the Grande Armée died when the bridge was exploded before the rest of the 20,000 soldiers had crossed it. These sorts of mistakes and the previous mistakes of his marshals lost Napoleon his crown eventually.

Again in the 1814 campaign Napoleon performed brilliantly (perhaps even his best performances), but numbers were against him. Also the coalition again applied the tactics of avoiding Napoleon.

Waterloo doesn't even have half the importance of Leipzig. Just because it is one of the few great British land victories it is so well known. Also because the British dominated politics and world affairs for the next century the victory of Waterloo was so forced trough the throats of the Europeans. In fact it was a minor victory and Napoleon could have fought later on if he had wanted to.

irishcrusader95

never really understood why Napoleon chose to fight the battle as he was vastly outnumbered, did he not have any choice in the matter?

what of the cross over by Napoleons german allies, did that have a major impact on the battles result or was it already a forgone conclusion by then anyway. the fiasco at the bridge during the retreat was also a real mess up, its demolition being left in the control of a major(i think) who then disappeared and left it in the control of a corporal who did it too early resulting in thousands of troops being stranded on the other side and the death of Poniatowski who as i recall had only recently been made a Marshal. bad luck can be attributed to that yet others must take blame as well for it that a situation could come about that there was only one bridge for retreat and its demolition was left in the hands of a corporal.

dimmit

Did Napoleon actually have a choice at that point?

His army was severely weakened by the Russian withdraw. Also, his army was rather isolated in Saxony with the allies threatening his supply lines from the west. By the time of the battle he was surrounded by the allied force and he really had no other choice.

irishcrusader95

what so of the cross over by Napoleons german allies, did that make a decisive difference to the battle or was it already a forgone conclusion by then?

jeroenrottgering

Yes, it was. Remember most of Napoleon's troops were uncertain allies and new recruits. Eventhough his lines were holding against enemies attacks, the fact that he faced twice as much enemies was to much to bear. He missed the advantage of artillery and especially that of cavalry. Almost all of his horses had died in Russia and troughout the the 1813 and 1814 campaign this lack of cavalry stopped him from performing the coup de grace. Because of this he was never really able to finish off the routing enemy.

Young Guard

There are many more important battles during the Napoleonic era, Leipzig shouldn't be known as the most important battle, it should be known as one of the important battle during the Napoleonic era. The battle of Austerlitz, battle of Jena-Auerstadt, battle of Trafalagar and many more were famous and important battles during the Napoleonic era.