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Old October 14th, 2008, 04:32 PM   #1
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Did Lenin commit atrocities too?


Most communists that I have seen usually have not much respect for Stalin but they admire Lenin, I wanna know if Lenin has committed any atrocities or does he really deserve any credit for his humanistic behavior

As far as I know execution of the Royal family was something horrible that Lenin was involved with, now did he do anything else?

Did he tolerate his opposite views? did he order executions without fair trials? did he jail someone for no good reason? Did he massacre people and all the other things that Stalin did?
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Old October 14th, 2008, 05:47 PM   #2
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Re: Did Lenin commit atrocities too?


He created the Soviet Secret Police. He was infamous for "Red Terror" which involved torturing and executing members of the communist party. Thousands of priests, monks, and nuns were killed because communists aren't very tolerent of religion. Tens of thousands were executed after General Nikolayevich Wrangel (a supporter of the whites) was defeated. Also thousands died in labor camps and executions that ranged from anything like rebellions to desertion. Did he kill as many people as Stalin? No. Is he just as evil? Yes.
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Old October 14th, 2008, 06:02 PM   #3
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Re: Did Lenin commit atrocities too?


Lenin wasn't evil. He cared about the workers (ensured they were well-fed through redistribution), encouraged education and literacy, and redistributed the wealth the rich had amassed at the expense of the poor.
Yes, he executed some (nowhere near as many as Stalin) but most of those were traitors, criminals and counterrevolutionaries: supporters of the Tsar, members of the church (who exploited the superstitious peasants and kept them poor) and enemy spies (Roman Malinovsky).
The Whites were much worse than the Reds (riding into villages and slaughtering everyone). When they were captured by the Reds they were punished for the crimes they committed (which included executing prisoners of war).
Lenin didn't invent labor camps: exile to Siberia existed under the Tsar. It was Stalin who was responsible for the large gulags, terror and loss of life (though on the plus side he did modernise Russia, made her a superpower and won the war).

Last edited by Nick; October 15th, 2008 at 06:03 AM.
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Old October 14th, 2008, 11:41 PM   #4

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Re: Did Lenin commit atrocities too?


Evil is measured by a mans quality, not by his quantity.
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Old October 15th, 2008, 12:06 AM   #5

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Re: Did Lenin commit atrocities too?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Yes, he executed some (nowhere near as many as Stalin) but most of those were traitors, criminals and counterrevolutionaries: supporters of the Tsar, members of the church (who exploited the superstitious peasants and kept them poor) and enemy spies (Roman Malinovsky).
Oh but I think you're forgetting a few people!

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Russian_Revolution[/ame]

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kronstadt_Uprising[/ame]

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tambov_rebellion"]Tambov Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

The largest part of the people massacred by the Bolsheviks weren't White Guards or priests or spies or anything of the sort. The majority was comprised of people like the Mensheviks, the sailors of Petrograd (who were part of the Petrograd Soviet, long before Lenin showed up), the Socialist Revolutionaries (again, around long before Lenin) anarchists who resisted the state dictatorship of the supposed proletariat, peasants who had their grain confiscated and so on.

Lenin effectively hijacked a popular revolution, guided it from what it could have been to a state capitalist dictatorship, and then largely disposed of the original revolutionaries. With extreme brutality, apparently.

Lenin was also responsible for the Red Terror, a program of Bolshevik terror against all political opponents (including the above mentioned) in the face of what appeared to be - was - a third mass revolt of the Russians, this time against the imposter Lenin! His personal orders were to "introduce mass terror" in telegrams dated before the assassination attempts which were used as the excuse to introduce the terror. And the name, apparently, was apt: some of the execution methods of the Red Terror were simply unbelievable. Cages of rats tied to peoples bodies and exposed to flame so the rats would gnaw their way through the victim to escape, people fed footfirst into furnaces (slowly), and so on.

Lenin was an evil bastard and the true manifestation of everything he postured against: an oppressor of the peasants and working classes, despot, and, by 1918, victorious enemy of the Russian revolution. Not too surprising, considering his bourgeouis background and trade (lawyer ... ). He is the Marxist definition of a reactionary.

Last edited by Edgewaters; October 15th, 2008 at 12:53 AM.
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Old October 15th, 2008, 04:48 AM   #6

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Re: Did Lenin commit atrocities too?


Lenin is always sugar coated in history and many people do believe he is a pioneer and a courageous and tireless worker for the masses.

It is very annoying; the reality is far from pretty where he is concerned as has been noted in the above posts.

It is not wise to compare him to Stalin, if only because Stalin was such a deranged psychopath that even Hitler seems like a pussycat next to him.

After the February revolution and a few months of pseudo collaboration with the Kerensky government he ousted the Mensheviks and the October revolution went underway…. and pray tell what all this achieved if not more instability for the country and the people he was supposedly most concerned about…which are the workers
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Old October 15th, 2008, 12:52 PM   #7
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Re: Did Lenin commit atrocities too?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgewaters View Post
Oh but I think you're forgetting a few people!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Russian_Revolution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kronstadt_Uprising

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tambov_rebellion

The largest part of the people massacred by the Bolsheviks weren't White Guards or priests or spies or anything of the sort. The majority was comprised of people like the Mensheviks, the sailors of Petrograd (who were part of the Petrograd Soviet, long before Lenin showed up), the Socialist Revolutionaries (again, around long before Lenin) anarchists who resisted the state dictatorship of the supposed proletariat, peasants who had their grain confiscated and so on.

Lenin effectively hijacked a popular revolution, guided it from what it could have been to a state capitalist dictatorship, and then largely disposed of the original revolutionaries. With extreme brutality, apparently.

Lenin was also responsible for the Red Terror, a program of Bolshevik terror against all political opponents (including the above mentioned) in the face of what appeared to be - was - a third mass revolt of the Russians, this time against the imposter Lenin! His personal orders were to "introduce mass terror" in telegrams dated before the assassination attempts which were used as the excuse to introduce the terror. And the name, apparently, was apt: some of the execution methods of the Red Terror were simply unbelievable. Cages of rats tied to peoples bodies and exposed to flame so the rats would gnaw their way through the victim to escape, people fed footfirst into furnaces (slowly), and so on.

Lenin was an evil bastard and the true manifestation of everything he postured against: an oppressor of the peasants and working classes, despot, and, by 1918, victorious enemy of the Russian revolution. Not too surprising, considering his bourgeouis background and trade (lawyer ... ). He is the Marxist definition of a reactionary.
Thanks for good info

Can you please give sources for this:
Quote:
people fed footfirst into furnaces (slowly)
And this:
Quote:
Cages of rats tied to peoples bodies and exposed to flame so the rats would gnaw their way through the victim to escape
And this:
Quote:
His personal orders were to "introduce mass terror" in telegrams dated before the assassination attempts which were used as the excuse to introduce the terror.
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Old October 15th, 2008, 12:56 PM   #8
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Re: Did Lenin commit atrocities too?


I think I found a good book on "Red terror"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special...ces/0198228627
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Old October 16th, 2008, 01:05 AM   #9

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Re: Did Lenin commit atrocities too?


Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianMotorist View Post
Thanks for good info

Can you please give sources for this:


And this:


And this:
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Century-Violence-Soviet-Russia/dp/0300087608"]Amazon.com: A Century of Violence in Soviet Russia (9780300087604): Mr. Alexander N. Yakovlev: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5136W4FDZQL.@@AMEPARAM@@5136W4FDZQL[/ame]
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Old October 21st, 2008, 02:59 PM   #10

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Re: Did Lenin commit atrocities too?


Hitler once commented that the British did not win their empire by setting up soup kitchens, and similarly, there's rarely such thing as a bloodless revolution, especially when those being deposed from power and the rich and powerful "class enemy". White Russians, let us not forget, did their best to involve the rest of the world in a counter revolution. Yes, Lenin did commit some nasty acts, but that goes with the territory, realistically. He had some very powerful and implacible enemies.

I suppose it's significant that in Orwell's "Animal Farm", the Trotsky/Lenin figure of Snowball, whilst really the hero of the battle to overthrow the farmer, nevetheless was presumably in on the "disappearance" of the milk and apples very early on in the book. I guess this hints at Lenin and Trotsky not being as pure as they were painted. I agree with Nick that Lenin and Stalin are leagues apart, and that the Soviet Revolution was just, in that the Tsar refused to allow any kind of democracy or redistribution of wealth, and kept Russia 100 years behind the rest of developed Europe.
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