Cavanboy

Was Serbia in the wrong to deny Austria-Hungary the right to investigate and punish Princip?

pikeshot1600

As I recall, Serbia accepted every demand of Austria-Hungary made after the assassination - except that/those which affected Serbia's sovereignty. The decision had already been made in A-H to declare war regardless, so it was moot.

bartieboy

. Suppress all publications which "incite hatred and contempt of the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy"andare "directedagainst its territorialintegrity".
2. Dissolve the Serbiannationalistorganisation"Narodna Odbrana" ("The People's Defense") and all other such societies in Serbia.
3. Eliminate withoutdelayfrom schoolbooks andpublic documents all"propaganda against Austria-Hungary".
4. Remove from the Serbian military and civil administration all officers and functionaries whose names the Austro-Hungarian Government willprovide.
5. Accept in Serbia "representatives of the Austro-Hungarian Government"forthe "suppression ofsubversivemovements".
6. Bring to trial all accessories to the Archduke's assassination and allow "Austro-Hungarian delegates" (law enforcement officers) to take part in the investigations.
7. Arrest Major Voja Tankosić and civil servant Milan Ciganović who were named as participants in the assassination plot.
8. Cease the cooperation ofthe Serbianauthorities inthe "traffic in arms and explosives across the frontier"; dismissand punish the officials of the at Shabatz Loznica frontier service, "guilty of having assisted the perpetrators of the Sarajevo crime".
9. Provide "explanations" to the Austro-Hungarian Government regarding "Serbian officials" who have expressed themselves in interviews "in terms of hostility to the Austro-Hungarian Government".
10. Notify the Austro-Hungarian Government "without delay"of the execution of the measures comprised in the ultimatum.

bartieboy

It's not that simple, Istvan Tisza really did hope the Serbs would accept the ultimatum.

Space Shark

So Serbia basically had to join the pro-Austrian camp or be crushed.

Larrey

The plan was to make sure they would be rejected, so war it had to be.

The Serbian diplomats however were clever enough to accept all but one, iirc, and ask for clarifications of some other points. Nice piece of diplomacy there, since it became a little awkward for the Austrians to claim they had been completely and utterly rebuffed. Still, they persevered, and off to war they went.

Kotromanic

:s uspicious:

Please is there more context for this comment?

The A-H diplomats could not have been unaware of the risk to the Karageorgevich dynasty of submitting to all of the demands.

The dynasty had re-taken the monarchy only ten to twelve years earlier. Forces loyal to the Obrenovich family were likely to take matters into their own hands.

Austria needed to make diplomacy with the Russians if they were interested in a peaceful resolution. Russia was able to get Serbia to accept the majority of the points.

The Tsar's predecesor's had a consistent commitment to Serb independence since the 1830s. The Austrians understood this, and understood that war with Serbia meant war with Russia.

One can speculate that the Germans and Austrians imagined that the crisis could be concluded with a multilateral conference. But the nature of the ultimatum means to me, my opinion, that Austria saw no possibility of international arbitration by that time.

pikeshot1600

Who, in the circumstances, had more influence with the Emperor, Tisza or Franz Conrad von Hotzendorf?

bartieboy

I am not to familiar with austro Hungarian politics but I think it is safe to assume he had significant influence.

Lawnmowerman

Do you think the attempted assasination by the car bomb would've been enough for AH to demand these rediculous terms off Serbia???

Ferdinand survived that attack, continued with his diplomatic duties and was killed by chance by Princip when his car took a wrong turn and Princip walked out of a sandwich bar to find his targets car stalled right in front of him, an oppurtinity to good to miss.

There was a very good chance had Ferdinands driver not gotten lost, or that the guy standin in front of Princip makes a complex sandwich order, that Ferdinand could've survived, and AH would be dealing with an attempted assasination.