Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > European History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

European History European History Forum - Western and Eastern Europe including the British Isles, Scandinavia, Russia


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 8th, 2013, 04:48 PM   #91
Historian
 
Joined: Nov 2012
From: Pax juxta probitatem
Posts: 1,621
Blog Entries: 14

Hitler’s Jewish Commander's story is also told here Hitler?s Jewish Commander and Victim | Jewish Voice From Germany. Examples of humanitarian acts include Dorothy Greenstein, who said she was protected by collaborating farmers by Christians while on the run from Otwock, Poland. Another, Chopin lover Captain Wilm Hosenfeld, risked his own life for Polish pianist Wladyslaw Szpilman "when he found him hiding in the ruins of Warsaw in 1944, and heard his playing". Hosenfeld's diary (he saved others in Warsaw) and story are here.In 1945 it's believed, Hosenfeld was sent to a Soviet prison Camp and perished there, Hosenfeld was later honoured by Israel's Holocaust memorial authority.
"The Pianist" hero - Wladyslaw Szpilman Interview by David Ensor Peter Jennings ABC - YouTube
John Paul is offline  
Remove Ads
Old December 9th, 2013, 03:33 AM   #92
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Dec 2013
From: Bleiburg
Posts: 167

Quote:
Originally Posted by wario2255 View Post
Kaiser Wilhelm II, Hitler, and the Jews - HISTORICITY (was already taken) Kaiser wilhelm II wrote The Jews are a nuisance that humanity must get rid of some way or other. I believe the best would be gas!
You are quoting from a weblog which has no reference?

Some of these weblogs have all sorts of makey-uppy stuff on them.
AfterTaut is offline  
Old December 9th, 2013, 03:49 AM   #93
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Dec 2013
From: Bleiburg
Posts: 167

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcoat View Post
They weren't a political tool, Nazism was a political party based on racism.
The removal of Jews from Germany by whatever means was a central part of the Nazi creed from the start.
Reichsmarschall Herman Goering wrote his famous letter to SS-Obergruppenführer Reinhard Heydrich regarding the "final solution of the Jewish question" on July 31, 1942.

"As supplement to the task that was entrusted to you in the decree dated January 24, 1939, namely to solve the Jewish question by emigration and evacuation in a way, which is the most favorable in connection with the conditions prevailing at the time, I herewith commission you to carry out all preparations with regard to organizational, factual, and financial viewpoints for a total solution of the Jewish question in those territories in Europe under German influence.

If the competency of other central organizations is touched in this connection, these organizations are to participate.

I further commission you to submit to me as soon as possible a draft showing the organizational, factual, and financial measures already taken for the execution of the intended final solution of the Jewish question."

Click the image to open in full size.
AfterTaut is offline  
Old December 9th, 2013, 02:03 PM   #94

redcoat's Avatar
Hiding behind the sofa
 
Joined: Nov 2010
From: Stockport Cheshire UK
Posts: 6,781

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turuk View Post
It is also a recorded fact that wealthy Jews were playing financial games and financial manipulation.
If it is a recorded fact I've no doubt you will have little difficulty in providing sources to back up your claim.
There is no evidence that wealthy Jews behaved any differently than the rest of the wealthy in Germany.
redcoat is offline  
Old December 9th, 2013, 04:58 PM   #95
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Jan 2013
From: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 5,835

Quote:
Reichsmarschall Herman Goering wrote his famous letter to SS-Obergruppenführer Reinhard Heydrich regarding the "final solution of the Jewish question" on July 31, 1942.
In actual fact. it was Heydrich who drafted the letter, or had it drafted, in July 1941, and then took it to Goering for the latter to sign.

The precise day on which Goering signed it not known, since no day was inserted. It is merely assumed to be 31 July, since that is the latest date on which it could have been signed.

The wording replicates almost exactly a directive given by Goering to Heydrich in March 1941. No copy of that earlier directive has survived, but it is known from Eichmann's correspondence, in which he quotes it.

The March directive was issued in the context of planning for the invasion of the Soviet Union. At that time it was assumed that the Soviet Union would be conquered before the end of the year, and vast swathes of Soviet territory would become available for dumping all the Jews living in German-occupied Europe. It is known from Goebbels' diary that the concept was to send Jews to prison settlements in White Sea region, where the first concentration camps of the Bolshevik regime had been established in the early 1920s; the Jews were to be used for forced labour there.

Thus, the planning for that mass deportation was begun in March 1941, along with the planning for the invasion itself. Goering, as Plenipotentiary for the Four-Year Plan and general economic czar, had responsibility for all policy relating to Jews, since the "Jewish Problem" was seen primarily as an economic one, to be solved by exiling Jews and confiscating their property. In March, he passed that responsibility on to Heydrich as a sort of sub-contract; it is unknown whether the initiative for that came from Goering or Heydrich.

The July 1941 directive was essentially a restatement of the earlier directive, in the new context of the invasion of the Soviet Union now being underway. It is possible that Heydrich feared that, now that the invasion was proceeding, other agencies might try to take over the planned deportation of Jews into the newly conquered territory, or conversely might try to impede it; one likely rival was Rosenberg's Ministry for the Occupied Eastern Territories, which had formal control over all conquered Soviet territory.

The bottom line is that Goering's directive to Heydrich of July 1941 does not have anything like the significance that was assigned to it at the Trial of the Major War Criminals before the International Military Tribunal. It was not the "beginning of the Final Solution", since the concept of a "Final Solution" through exile had existed on official files relating to Jewish policy since 1938; it was simply an item of bureaucratic jockeying for control over that Jewish policy.
michael mills is offline  
Old December 10th, 2013, 01:21 AM   #96

AlpinLuke's Avatar
Knight-errant
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Lago Maggiore, Italy
Posts: 19,894
Blog Entries: 19

If you understand German [Ich spreche deutsch und ich kann diese Dokumente verstehen].

Dokumente, Protokolle und Augenzeugenberichte über die Endlösung der Judenfrage | Israel Nachrichten ? Online Zeitung für Politik, Kultur, Religion aus Israel

It's interesting, overall, what came out from Wannsee Konferenz [Jan 20th 1942].

For example:

Quote:
Unter entsprechender Leitung sollen im Zuge der Endlösung die Juden in geeigneter Weise im Osten zum Arbeitseinsatz kommen. In großen Arbeitskolonnen, unter Trennung der Geschlechter, werden die arbeitsfähigen Juden straßenbauend in diese Gebiete geführt, wobei zweifellos ein Großteil durch natürliche Verminderung ausfallen wird.
Substantially ...

Under proper guidance, the Jews are to be sent in the east to the labor camps for the final solution. In large labor camps, with the sexes separated, the Jews capable of work will be conducted on roads in those areas, [where] [because of] activity doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes.
AlpinLuke is offline  
Old December 10th, 2013, 04:00 AM   #97
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Jan 2013
From: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 5,835

Quote:
doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes.
Faulty translation.

The correct translation is:

"doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural decrease".

"Natural decrease" is a demographic term meaning a reduction in population due to excess of death over births. It is the opposite of "natural increase".

Since the sexes were to be separated, there would be no further births among the deported Jews, so deaths would automatically exceed births.
michael mills is offline  
Old December 10th, 2013, 04:06 AM   #98

Gudenrath's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: May 2012
From: Denmark
Posts: 2,626

Quote:
Originally Posted by michael mills View Post
Faulty translation.

The correct translation is:

"doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural decrease".

"Natural decrease" is a demographic term meaning a reduction in population due to excess of death over births. It is the opposite of "natural increase".

Since the sexes were to be separated, there would be no further births among the deported Jews, so deaths would automatically exceed births.
No, that was not what was meant. And the fact that you try to pretend it wasn't is quite revealing.
Gudenrath is offline  
Old December 10th, 2013, 04:10 AM   #99
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Jan 2013
From: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 5,835

Gudenrath:

"natuerlich" = natural.

"Verminderung" = decrease.

"natuerliche Verminderung" = natural decrease.
michael mills is offline  
Old December 10th, 2013, 04:10 AM   #100

AlpinLuke's Avatar
Knight-errant
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Lago Maggiore, Italy
Posts: 19,894
Blog Entries: 19

Quote:
Originally Posted by michael mills View Post
Faulty translation.

The correct translation is:

"doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural decrease".

"Natural decrease" is a demographic term meaning a reduction in population due to excess of death over births. It is the opposite of "natural increase".

Since the sexes were to be separated, there would be no further births among the deported Jews, so deaths would automatically exceed births.
If you want to play with words ...

First ... what you say is a "natural cause" as well.

Second ... do you find that this is not acting to cause the disappearance of a part of the German / Eastern European population ... on the base of a racial / religious selection?

To make it even more clear: it would be like to say ... Protestants in Italy cannot have children [guess which would be the destiny of Italian Protestants ...].
AlpinLuke is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > European History

Tags
commander, hitler, jewish, ordered, protected, report, war



Search tags for this page
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Master and Commander: The Far Side Of The World SilverWolf History in Films and on Television 34 June 7th, 2014 04:28 PM
Hitler jewish himself? SudaniMujahid European History 8 December 4th, 2010 05:23 PM
Russia admits Stalin ordered Katyn massacre of Poles diddyriddick War and Military History 6 December 1st, 2010 01:25 PM
Official: KGB chief ordered Hitler's remains destroyed Fluffybunny War and Military History 2 December 15th, 2009 06:52 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.