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Old December 19th, 2013, 02:03 PM   #151

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Do you mean Struthof?
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Old December 19th, 2013, 02:36 PM   #152
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Do you mean Struthof?
No, Stutthof Concentration Camp near Danzig, at that time part of Germany.

Struthof-Natzweiler Concentration Camp was in Alsace.
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Old December 19th, 2013, 03:04 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by GogLais View Post
The contrary argument has been put better by others than I can. I think I'll find someone to debate with whether the earth is flat or if the moon is made of green cheese.
Good idea and no offence here, my friend. I make no accusations and members must decide for themselves but the only way to defeat Holocaust deniers is to starve them of any reaction and replies. Because you'll need to have your research and knowledge on the ball if you find yourself arguing with skillful, bullying, arrogant "respected Holocaust experts" (according to some circles, not the good ones). Far-right neo-Nazis, including active, antipodeon government civil servants, have been at this for decades on the internet, many of them can be traced elsewhere, online. Possibly, unashamedly, connected with other more prominent "Holocaust deniers" and personalities . Regrettably, one or two are UK based or frequent the UK, connected with Oswald Mosley.

They're considered "the most skillful preachers of Holocaust denial in the world today" and you may find their extant postings still on revisionist websites or Newsletters. Only a few will defeat them in debate and even then; they just keep posting. Arguing is futile, for they rarely debate nor do they veer from their singular ideological purpose, which is to argue against the veracity of recorded Nazi crimes and to "put the record straight". They don't "deny" the Holocaust, they argue against arguments, possibly paid for their labours, a possibility which can't be proved or disproved. They haven't gone away you know, but I for one will not share a website with proselytizers who clearly, after recent online research; consort with convicted criminals.

Members should decide for themselves.

Michael Shermer and Alex Grobman, 2002, p.42.

Last edited by John Paul; December 19th, 2013 at 04:03 PM. Reason: Context: "consort"
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Old December 20th, 2013, 01:07 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by michael mills View Post
No Jews were ever sent to Madagascar because Germany never had control over that island.

The Madagascar Plan was contingent on an end to the war between Britain and Germany, and British co-operation with Germany and France in the transportation of European Jews to Madagascar and their settlement there. As long as the war continued, and the Royal Navy controlled the sea-lanes, there was no way of shipping Jews anywhere.

However, German Jews were indeed deported to Riga and Minsk in occupied Soviet territory, between November 1941 and February 1942, and housed in the ghettos there.

Practically all the Jews sent to Minsk perished or were killed before the end of the war, there being only a handful of survivors. However, a considerable number of the Jews sent to Riga survived until the summer of 1944, when they were evacuated by sea to Germany along with the German military personnel and civilians retreating from Latvia. On arrival in Germany they were held in camps such as Stutthof.

That is one of the paradoxical elements in the German treatment of the Jews under their control during the Second World War; why the Germans expended the effort to bring Jewish prisoners back from Latvia rather than just kill them on the spot, as they did in many other locations in the East before they retreated.

In general, the Germans treated German Jews relatively better than Eastern Jews, ie the Jews of Poland and the Soviet Union, tending to preserve them rather than kill them out of hand.

Indeed, on 1 December 1941 the HSSPF-Nord Russland, Fritz Jeckeln, was severely reprimanded by Himmler for having executed some deported German Jews in Riga, contrary to orders, and was warned he would be punished if he did it again.

And in fact he did not do it again. The deported German Jews were housed in the Riga Ghetto.
Great post.
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Old December 20th, 2013, 01:17 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by John Paul View Post
Good idea and no offence here, my friend. I make no accusations and members must decide for themselves but the only way to defeat Holocaust deniers is to starve them of any reaction and replies. Because you'll need to have your research and knowledge on the ball if you find yourself arguing with skillful, bullying, arrogant "respected Holocaust experts" (according to some circles, not the good ones). Far-right neo-Nazis, including active, antipodeon government civil servants, have been at this for decades on the internet, many of them can be traced elsewhere, online. Possibly, unashamedly, connected with other more prominent "Holocaust deniers" and personalities . Regrettably, one or two are UK based or frequent the UK, connected with Oswald Mosley.

They're considered "the most skillful preachers of Holocaust denial in the world today" and you may find their extant postings still on revisionist websites or Newsletters. Only a few will defeat them in debate and even then; they just keep posting. Arguing is futile, for they rarely debate nor do they veer from their singular ideological purpose, which is to argue against the veracity of recorded Nazi crimes and to "put the record straight". They don't "deny" the Holocaust, they argue against arguments, possibly paid for their labours, a possibility which can't be proved or disproved. They haven't gone away you know, but I for one will not share a website with proselytizers who clearly, after recent online research; consort with convicted criminals.

Members should decide for themselves.

Michael Shermer and Alex Grobman, 2002, p.42.
Nonsense.

You are on a history site and you won't or can't debate simple points of history.

I for one am not a "Far-right neo-Nazi", I am left-wing on most things and would regard myself as almost a communist.

I reckon if I were alive in Hitler's Germany I would be one of those put in prison because I ask too many questions

Holocaustians can't debate revisionists because they believe in a myth which has little substance and quickly run out of fuel.

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Last edited by AfterTaut; December 20th, 2013 at 01:32 AM.
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Old December 20th, 2013, 06:05 AM   #156

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I for one am not a "Far-right neo-Nazi", I am left-wing on most things and would regard myself as almost a communist.

I reckon if I were alive in Hitler's Germany I would be one of those put in prison because I ask too many questions
Sorry but if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck. and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

You are a holocaust denier
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Old December 20th, 2013, 06:11 AM   #157
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Sorry but if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck. and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

You are a holocaust denier
That is not a label I would choose for myself, but if you're going to force me to wear it I will wear it as my yellow star
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Old December 20th, 2013, 06:58 AM   #158
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Sorry but if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck. and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

You are a holocaust denier
When evidence is presented stating the opposite of what you've been told, why would you blame anyone for questioning what happened in the first place?

It's people like you that will prevent anyone from getting to the truth.

We all know history is written by the victor. The story you're being told right now is probably not the truth. How much of it is untrue we may never know, but you can't blame people for digging further.

Sorry, but you're not contributing to this discussion at all.
Just leave if all you're going to do is puke every time someone posts something.
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Old December 20th, 2013, 07:48 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by AfterTaut View Post
Nonsense.

You are on a history site and you won't or can't debate simple points of history.
This is rich.

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I reckon if I were alive in Hitler's Germany I would be one of those put in prison because I ask too many questions
Seems the best place.

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Holocaustians can't debate revisionists because they believe in a myth which has little substance and quickly run out of fuel.
Historians, not Holocaustians (that is a silly word), and they don't run out of fuel, they ignore weak trouble makers. Let us know when the professional historians and adults arrive because these posts are third grade quality and just risible. Why not head over to the Axis History forums, where one of you has already been banned as a trouble making liar, and outed as a David Irving apologist. The way to defeat these people is not to reply, after this post I hope nobody does. Let's wait for Mr civil servant and David Irving accomplice to arrive too, shall we?

Last edited by John Paul; December 20th, 2013 at 07:51 AM.
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Old December 20th, 2013, 03:07 PM   #160
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This is rich.

Seems the best place.

Historians, not Holocaustians (that is a silly word), and they don't run out of fuel, they ignore weak trouble makers. Let us know when the professional historians and adults arrive because these posts are third grade quality and just risible. Why not head over to the Axis History forums, where one of you has already been banned as a trouble making liar, and outed as a David Irving apologist. The way to defeat these people is not to reply, after this post I hope nobody does. Let's wait for Mr civil servant and David Irving accomplice to arrive too, shall we?
So your idea of history is to censor people you dont agree with
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