Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > European History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

European History European History Forum - Western and Eastern Europe including the British Isles, Scandinavia, Russia


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 8th, 2013, 12:38 PM   #81

redcoat's Avatar
Hiding behind the sofa
 
Joined: Nov 2010
From: Stockport Cheshire UK
Posts: 6,781

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike215 View Post
The History Channel did an interesting program about the 100,000 Jews who fought for Hitler in the war.
No practicing members of the Jewish faith was allowed to serve in the German army in WW2.
The so called 'Jewish' soldiers were Christians who had a single Jewish parent or grandparent, they were only Jews under the Nazi definition of Jewishness.
redcoat is offline  
Remove Ads
Old December 8th, 2013, 12:41 PM   #82

redcoat's Avatar
Hiding behind the sofa
 
Joined: Nov 2010
From: Stockport Cheshire UK
Posts: 6,781

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike215 View Post
It is ironic that the Jews in Germany had more rights and economic opportunities then the Jews in other countries until Hitler came to power. One story I heard why the Jews were hated by the time the Nazis came to power was that they survived the Depression in the early 1920s with the high inflation the collapse of the currency. They were smart enough to get their money out of Germany before the collapse and then brought the money back which made many of them extremely wealthy. This wealth made the rest of the population very angry and willing to listen to the Nazis.
.
Do you realise you are merely recycling Nazi slurs about the Jews, not actual facts.
redcoat is offline  
Old December 8th, 2013, 12:46 PM   #83

Davidius's Avatar
Varlet
 
Joined: Dec 2010
From: Pillium
Posts: 4,823

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcoat View Post
Do you realise you are merely recycling Nazi slurs about the Jews, not actual facts.
Mike215 doesn't do facts, see the various Kennedy threads for examples.
Davidius is offline  
Old December 8th, 2013, 12:51 PM   #84
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Dec 2013
From: WWW
Posts: 103

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcoat View Post
Do you realise you are merely recycling Nazi slurs about the Jews, not actual facts.
Which part of his story is not true? It is a fact that the depression contributed to German people supporting Nazism. It is also a recorded fact that wealthy Jews were playing financial games and financial manipulation. Mike215 didn't say he supported what Nazi's did to Jews. He only described the environment German people were in. Life or death and sandwitched between the greater powers.

Last edited by Turuk; December 8th, 2013 at 12:54 PM.
Turuk is offline  
Old December 8th, 2013, 02:22 PM   #85
Historian
 
Joined: Nov 2012
From: Pax juxta probitatem
Posts: 1,621
Blog Entries: 14

Authors allege Speer said "Hitler used 'flaws' [his term] in men to control them". It's probably unrealistic to imagine people without mixed heritage in Germany under Hitler considering pre-war intermarriages and relationships. Many "half Jews" were passionate Germans. The futility and stupidity of this racist ideology are shown up when one asks how they differentiated, let alone justified their policies, perhaps they themselves didn't know the answer to that. Therefore it must have been arbitrary but nothing excuses it.

Dr. Fritz Redlich, Hitler: Diagnosis of a Destructive Prophet, OUP 1998. And Bryan Rigg PhD, Hitler's Jewish Soldiers. Rigg used to have a website but it's no longer accessible, he estimated "some 150,000 mischlinge served in the Wehrmacht". It's complicated, including the 1942 Wannsee Conference protocol, Reich Citizenship Law, exemptions to Nazi racial laws, and the clearly criminal classification of Jewish people at the time.
John Paul is offline  
Old December 8th, 2013, 02:26 PM   #86

Naomasa298's Avatar
Modpool
 
Joined: Apr 2010
From: T'Republic of Yorkshire
Posts: 29,960

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcoat View Post
No practicing members of the Jewish faith was allowed to serve in the German army in WW2.
The so called 'Jewish' soldiers were Christians who had a single Jewish parent or grandparent, they were only Jews under the Nazi definition of Jewishness.
There were a few full-blooded Jews who kept their real identity secret and served with the Germans. I recall one man who served with the Waffen-SS. He explained his circumcision away as a result of a sexual disease like syphilis or something, and his companions jokingly called him "The Jew". He recalled that these men were his comrades-in-arms and he would have trusted them with his life, but he was also under no illusion that had they found out the truth, they would have turned on him in an instant.
Naomasa298 is offline  
Old December 8th, 2013, 02:40 PM   #87

Kevinmeath's Avatar
Acting Corporal
 
Joined: May 2011
From: Navan, Ireland
Posts: 12,556

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike215 View Post
..........................

...........................Years ago I was able to speak the Russian Jews who immigrated to the US in after the 1970s. Their story is that hatred for Jews barely existed in Russia until the Jews started to get care packages from the US with expensive clothing such as jeans. The sold this clothing and made a lot of money which angered the other Russians and led to a general hatred for Jews. That resulted in the Russian Jews wanting the leave Russia.
So you wouldn't count the 'progroms' of Imperial Russia as 'Anti-Jewish'?
Kevinmeath is online now  
Old December 8th, 2013, 02:48 PM   #88
Historian
 
Joined: Nov 2012
From: Pax juxta probitatem
Posts: 1,621
Blog Entries: 14

I thought that when I saw the post this afternoon Kevin. A high percentage of modern Diaspora Jews might be descended from those who left Russia during 1880–1910 - but that's as far as I'm taking this.

Last edited by John Paul; December 8th, 2013 at 02:50 PM. Reason: added "this"
John Paul is offline  
Old December 8th, 2013, 03:42 PM   #89
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Jan 2013
From: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 5,835

Quote:
No practicing members of the Jewish faith was allowed to serve in the German army in WW2.
Historically incorrect.

A small number (some hundreds) of Crimean Karaites serving in the Waffen-SS were given official permission to practise their form of Judaism in private.

The Karaite religion is definitely a form of Judaism, with all the standard Jewish rites and festivals, the only difference from Rabbinic Judaism being that the Karaites do not recognise the Talmud as being divinely inspired.

In National Socialist ideology, however, the Karaites were not considered to be "racially" Jewish, being defined as a Turkic people who had adopted a form of Judaism. As a result they were exempted from the German anti-Jewish measures. In that respect the Germans were following the example of the Russian Imperial Government, which had likewise exempted the Karaites from anti-Jewish legislation.

The Crimean Karaites serving in the Waffen-SS had originally been members of the Crimean Tatar auxiliary police units created by the German military after the conquest of Crimea. Those units were subsequently taken from Wehrmacht control and absorbed into the Waffen-SS like most of the other auxiliary units created by the Germans in occupied Soviet territory.

In 1943, Himmler gave permission to the various ethnic units in the Waffen-SS to practise their traditional religions as a means of retaining their loyalty, and also of differentiating their present German masters from their former Soviet ones who had enforced atheism.

Thus, the Muslim Crimean Tatars began to openly practise their Islamic rites such as praying, and the Judaic Karaites began to practise theirs. The observation of men in Waffen-SS uniform performing Judaic rituals caused consternation among the senior ranks of the SS, as was to be expected, and they brought their concerns to Himmler.

The result was that Himmler gave permission to the Karaite members of the Waffen-SS to continue to practise their religion, but only in private where it would not offend anyone.
michael mills is offline  
Old December 8th, 2013, 03:51 PM   #90
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Jan 2013
From: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 5,835

Quote:
I recall one man who served with the Waffen-SS. He explained his circumcision away as a result of a sexual disease like syphilis or something, and his companions jokingly called him "The Jew". He recalled that these men were his comrades-in-arms and he would have trusted them with his life, but he was also under no illusion that had they found out the truth, they would have turned on him in an instant.
I think the reference may be to Solomon Perel, the man whose story was made into the movie "Europa, Europa".

So far as I know, historians do not take his account seriously, and consider it largely fictitious.

The true element in his story may be that he pretended to be an ethnic German, and was used by the Wehrmacht as a Russian-German interpreter. There were a number of Soviet Jews who successfully passed themselves off as ethnic Germans and worked for the German occupiers in various capacities, so that part of Perel's story may well be true.
michael mills is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > European History

Tags
commander, hitler, jewish, ordered, protected, report, war



Search tags for this page
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Master and Commander: The Far Side Of The World SilverWolf History in Films and on Television 34 June 7th, 2014 04:28 PM
Hitler jewish himself? SudaniMujahid European History 8 December 4th, 2010 05:23 PM
Russia admits Stalin ordered Katyn massacre of Poles diddyriddick War and Military History 6 December 1st, 2010 01:25 PM
Official: KGB chief ordered Hitler's remains destroyed Fluffybunny War and Military History 2 December 15th, 2009 06:52 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.