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November 4th, 2008, 09:16 PM
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#1 | | Grand Master of the Praxeum
Joined: Oct 2008 From: The Bright Center of the Universe Posts: 4,290 | Did Germany want war?
In 1914, did Germany want to go to war? It was ready for war by all accounts. Industrial production was increased, the Kaiser adopted a more militaristic policy, reservists numbered close to 8.5 million, railway platforms were extended for more efficient loading of troops onto trains and Germany had just competed in a Naval Arms Race with Great Britain so my question is: did Germany want to go to war in 1914?
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Last edited by Son of Cathal; November 4th, 2008 at 09:41 PM.
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November 4th, 2008, 11:15 PM
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#2 | | Historian
Joined: Apr 2008 From: Sodom and Begorrah Posts: 2,192 | Re: Did Germany want war?
Yes and no.
At the time they started they only thought they would be fighting France and Russia and the plan was to quickly knock out France and then deal with Russia. They knew France and especially Russia were soon to grow too strong for them so they reckoned they had to strike before it was too late. So yes, they wanted war in these circumstances.
If they had known that the British Empire was going to fight they would have said no as it tipped the balance of power against them. At the time they were actually shocked that Britain decided to fight.
The war may have been avoided if only Britain had made its intentions crystal clear before hand and delared full support for France. Instead for other good reasons they weren't prepared to commit.
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November 4th, 2008, 11:26 PM
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#3 | | the governed self
Joined: Jan 2007 From: Nebraska Posts: 10,297 | Re: Did Germany want war? Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Cathal In 1914, did Germany want to go to war? | I think it's fair to say yes. Their overall aim was to control a sort of Mittel-europa, pulling the strings of their Hapsburg ally all through the Balkans and exercising direct influence in Turkey. This plan ran afoul of Russian ambitions regarding the Balkans and Turkey. But if Russia intervened, this would just open up more real-estate in Poland, the Baltic, etc, for annexation after it's defeat, i.e. even more Mittel-europa to be had!
The problem was Alsace-Lorraine. The ostensible reason for it's annexation in 1871 was to shorten the German line. This makes perfect sense, but only if one remains on the defensive there, which Germany had no intention of doing. This gave the defensive advantage to the French, and so Germany reckoned that Belgium would have to be invaded too, so as to turn the left flank of the French line. And this was the proximate cause of British entry into the war.
Leaving aside the question of how closely their confidence bordered on stupidity, I can't but think that the Germans had in mind some annexations of French and British territory in Africa.
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November 5th, 2008, 01:14 AM
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#4 | | Archivist
Joined: Apr 2008 From: The Netherlands Posts: 139 | Re: Did Germany want war?
Germany's plans changed a little while before 1914 as in first instance they only saw the conquest of Russia as a realistic goal and didn't believe they would be able to defeat France right after. Their original plan was to start a diplomatic aproach of France after the war on the westfront started deep in French territority to get a stronger position (Alsace-Lorraine at least) when entering the negotiationtables.
If i'm correct these plans changed after the appointment of Von Schlieffen as head of the General Staff who came with the idea of a France first strike by using a massive strategic kesselschlacht and reach Paris before the full mobilisation of the Russian armies.
By invading Belgium for 'military purposes' they knew very well that England couldn't stay out of the war but they didn't believe the British Expedition Force would be able to make a difference against the fast forwarding German armies.
edit:
When asking if Germany wanted a war you need to take account that the entire European atmosphere was full of nationalistic and military sentiment. War was considered as a healthy practice to clear up the balance of power in Europe. War would be fresh and quick, a heroic effort that will be done with before christmas. I'm not saying that Germany wasn't the most guilty nation at the time but war was seen as inevitable for most nations on the European continent.
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Last edited by Charles Albert; November 5th, 2008 at 01:30 AM.
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November 5th, 2008, 01:50 AM
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#5 | | Grand Inquisitor
Joined: Nov 2008 From: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 647 | Re: Did Germany want war?
It would certainly seem that Germany expected war. It progressively increased the size of its army, naval and air capabilities throughout the early 20th century. Similarly it took significant measures to ensure its own protection, erecting defensive lines along the Western border. However, I think it is also true to say that at least the Kaiser, if not Germany as a whole, were optimistic about the prospects of war, expecting significant gains in the East, gaining swathes of Poland and Eastern Europe creating more space for its growing population (a concept that Hitler would later concentrate on).
Similarly, the Kaiser was also especially and personally active in encouraging Austro-Hungary to reject the Serbian compromise for the Archduke assassination, thereby knowing provoking the outbreak of war.
However, as it has been suggested, the Kaiser was certainly not expecting the war to be of a magnitude that it evolved into. If he could have anticipated his disastrous loss and subsequent liberal revolution, I doubt he would have been so eager.
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November 5th, 2008, 04:32 AM
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#6 | | Citizen
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 40 | Re: Did Germany want war?
Crownprince Rudolf predicted this war and he disliked Kaiser Wilhelm II. Every country knew the importance of war, but everybody thought war is't long, it takes only 6 weeks
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November 5th, 2008, 06:27 AM
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#7 | | Citizen
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 38 | Re: Did Germany want war?
Yes, they did.
If it had all escalated from the Moroccan crises Germany wouldn't have cared less.
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November 5th, 2008, 01:43 PM
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#8 |
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 13,377 | Re: Did Germany want war?
Hate to be over-simplistic ... but ... Germany wasn't exactly reluctant to go to war.
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November 5th, 2008, 02:35 PM
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#9 | | Grand Master of the Praxeum
Joined: Oct 2008 From: The Bright Center of the Universe Posts: 4,290 | Re: Did Germany want war? Quote:
Originally Posted by avon Hate to be over-simplistic ... but ... Germany wasn't exactly reluctant to go to war. | Simplicity is a good thing some times. This is what I was trying to say, they weren't reluctant to go to war and their militarization leads one to think they were looking for a reason to go to war
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November 5th, 2008, 03:20 PM
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#10 |
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 13,377 | Re: Did Germany want war?
Would've posted this earlier, only I couldn't remember which book it was in.
In diesem Kriege, den ich vorbereitet und eingeleitet habe, zur Untatigkeit verdammt zu sein, ist grausam - Helmuth von Moltke writing to Field Marshal Colmar Freiherr von der Goltz, 1915.
[trans. - It is dreadful to be condemned to inactivity in this war which I prepared and initiated.]
... certainly an interesting view!!
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