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Old November 25th, 2012, 01:58 PM   #21
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If operation Sea Lion (German landing on the British mainland) would have been carried out, I guess that Britain would have reacted similar to the French when occupied. They would have evacuated all the important figures (Royal Family, Winston Churchill and so on) to Canada or even the small island of Malta. From there the resistance to the Axis powers would have been upheld and organized and led. This would have been a great blow to British war industry and war effort and it would have effected British morale in a very negative way. I am not sure whether the allies would have still won the second World War even with the help of the United States of America.
Actually that was not the way the French reacted when they were occupied by the Germans.

Just ask Monsieur Pétain ...
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Old December 27th, 2012, 10:14 AM   #22

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I'm not sure if this is the best section but it does relate to the UK. Assuming Britain was successfully invaded by germany during ww2 either through operation sealion or another battle. What do you think the repercussions for this would have been on the commonwealth countries? Specifically Canada and australia.

Now by this period these two nations were essentially autonomous from britain. Canada actually waited 2 weeks after britain before declaring war on germany. However connections still ran deep.

Would the royal family have attempted to flee to either one of these countries? Assuming this happens in 1940 before the US is officially in the war, would these two countries attempt a counter invasion to aid GB themselves?
I think you should only have to look at Vichy France and her colonies. I like to think we could have allied ourselves with the US and kept fighting
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Old January 4th, 2013, 09:14 AM   #23

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I would have thought that it would be obvious that the royal family would have been moved to Britain if England were ever in any true danger.

Canada did, after all, accept and care for the Royal Family of Belgium while they were in exile, when Belgium was under Nazi control. If they would support an ally like Belgium, it's obvious they would support Great Britain, who was past 'ally' and closer to 'family'.
I completely agree with you. You made the point I was going to make. I just wanted to clarify. Canada welcomed Princess Margriet of the Netherlands with her two daughters. The third daughter was born in the Ottawa Civic Hospital that was temporarily made into the territory of the Netherlands so that the baby could be born on home land.

As a thank you for Canada's support, the Dutch send tulips every year to this day. This has flourished into the tulip festival that they have in the spring.

Thank you for your post
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Old January 4th, 2013, 10:17 AM   #24
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There were well documented contingency plans to evacuate the British government to Canada. I'd like to think that an invasion of Britain would have brought the US into the war, I think the fall of Britain definitely would have an under no condition would we allow Iceland to fall. But, in any case, Canada would have been safe. Not only did the logistics make an invasion impossible, but I think it's a foregone conclusion that even a single bombing raid against the American continents would have brought the US into the war.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 10:55 AM   #25

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There were well documented contingency plans to evacuate the British government to Canada. I'd like to think that an invasion of Britain would have brought the US into the war, I think the fall of Britain definitely would have an under no condition would we allow Iceland to fall. But, in any case, Canada would have been safe. Not only did the logistics make an invasion impossible, but I think it's a foregone conclusion that even a single bombing raid against the American continents would have brought the US into the war.
I am sure that there are alternative history books out there somewhere on the subject, but none that I know of seriously analyse the full impact of a defeated and occupied Britain. Len Deighton's SS-GB comes close, but he doesn't explain what happens to India, the troops in the Middle East and elsewhere. He puts the King in the Tower under German arrest, the rest of the Royal family split between New Zealand and Canada. The fleet has escaped to Canada and America has spies everywhere.
In "It Happened Here" the US occupies Ireland in 1944 and mounts an invasion of Scotland from there.
One assumes that India would have claimed its independence, although the Muslim/Hindu/Sikh issue would have to work it's way out, Burma too would have declared independence. How the British forces, unsupplied, could have managed to hold on in Egypt and Iraq is hard to say. The USA would certainly have annexed the British Caribbean Islands and perhaps some Pacific ones too.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 12:17 PM   #26
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I am sure that there are alternative history books out there somewhere on the subject, but none that I know of seriously analyse the full impact of a defeated and occupied Britain. Len Deighton's SS-GB comes close, but he doesn't explain what happens to India, the troops in the Middle East and elsewhere. He puts the King in the Tower under German arrest, the rest of the Royal family split between New Zealand and Canada. The fleet has escaped to Canada and America has spies everywhere.
In "It Happened Here" the US occupies Ireland in 1944 and mounts an invasion of Scotland from there.
One assumes that India would have claimed its independence, although the Muslim/Hindu/Sikh issue would have to work it's way out, Burma too would have declared independence. How the British forces, unsupplied, could have managed to hold on in Egypt and Iraq is hard to say. The USA would certainly have annexed the British Caribbean Islands and perhaps some Pacific ones too.
The US would have definitely looked out for her interests in the America and the Pacific and likely have taken responsibility for the the defense of the English speaking commonwealth realms; for one thing, their strategic importance was too great to allow them to fall, ignoring all other concerns.

North africa, the suez, and the middle east would likely fall unless due to supply issues unless the US entered the war. India may have made a separate peace, though if the middle east fell, I could see Italy wanting India for herself. I really don't know how that would have turned out since Germany and Italy never got far enough to be able to seriously consider the conquest of India. When Japan entered the war (and I have no doubt she would have, since she did under far less favourable circumstances anyway), I suspect India would have been too big of a prize for her to ignore. Likely driving India into an alliance with the US. In fact, India may have ended up being the main theater of the war, other than Russia, until the logistics could be built up to liberate Britain which likely could not have occurred before 1945, maybe 1944 if things were pushed and all other obligations neglected, but it would have taken that long to build the necessary shipping; but without having to maintain as many forces in the West, and without the African and Italian fronts, and without allied strategic bombing...who knows what the USSR would look like in 1945, though I suspect that even if the war was going good for them, they wouldn't yet be at the gates of Berlin and would be suffering from a severe inferiority in the air and a negotiated peace would not have been out of the question.

Soon thereafter the US gets the atomic bomb and while it may not have been as immediate as with Japan, which was already on the verge of defeat, I suspect after enough of their cities had been nuked Germany would have come to the peace table. Of course, without years of allied strategic bombing, maybe their nuclear program would have been further along.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 06:28 AM   #27
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I'm not sure if this is the best section but it does relate to the UK. Assuming Britain was successfully invaded by germany during ww2 either through operation sealion or another battle. What do you think the repercussions for this would have been on the commonwealth countries? Specifically Canada and australia.

Now by this period these two nations were essentially autonomous from britain. Canada actually waited 2 weeks after britain before declaring war on germany. However connections still ran deep.

Would the royal family have attempted to flee to either one of these countries? Assuming this happens in 1940 before the US is officially in the war, would these two countries attempt a counter invasion to aid GB themselves?
If Britain had been invaded by the Germans then things wouldn't have changed much. The British had the Home Guard to fight the Germans had they invaded and there were plans for the British Government to go to Canada and continue the war from there.

Britain would not have been out of the war had it been invaded.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 06:33 AM   #28
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Australia would have something like half a million troops I would imagine.
If Britain with an army of around 3 million was invaded by the Germans then I couldn't see how the Australians with an army of just 500,000 men could have done much had the Japanese landed on Australian soil.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 06:42 AM   #29
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I'm not so sure about how willing they would be letting the actual british government operate within their own country however?
It would have been an absolute disgrace had the Canucks not allowed the Government of their greatest ally of which it shares a Head of State and with which it has strong family ties to operate in Canada had Britain been invaded by the Nazis, particularly when Canadian soldiers were dying on the battlefield to free Europe of German tyranny and particularly when the British allowed the French, Czech, Polish, Dutch, Norwegian and maybe one or two other countries to operate in Britain during the war.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 08:43 AM   #30

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If Britain with an army of around 3 million was invaded by the Germans then I couldn't see how the Australians with an army of just 500,000 men could have done much had the Japanese landed on Australian soil.
Britain didn't have an army of 3 million in 1940. In September the entire army in all parts of the world numbered 892,697 of which more than half were territorials. By June 1940 the total muster was 1.3 million in all theatres. Although there were 22 infantry divisions in the UK in June 1940 all were at half or less strength and the only fully equipped units in the Islands were the Canadian 1st and 2nd Division, the Australian 18th Brigade and the New Zealand Expeditionary Force (NZEF). Fully equipped British and Commonwealth troops for home defence numbered only 485,000 in June. The Home guard was still called the Local Defence Volunteers in June and no uniforms or weapons had been issued AT ALL. Apart from privately owned weapons or those looted from museums the Home Guard (renamed so in July) had no official weapons before September and then very few and only in sensitive areas like the South Coast and in London for the news cameras. The exception were the small numbers of elements of the stay-behind guerilla units that used the Home Guard as a cover.
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