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Old October 5th, 2012, 12:24 AM   #1
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Canada/Australia in the event Britain was invaded by Germany?


I'm not sure if this is the best section but it does relate to the UK. Assuming Britain was successfully invaded by germany during ww2 either through operation sealion or another battle. What do you think the repercussions for this would have been on the commonwealth countries? Specifically Canada and australia.

Now by this period these two nations were essentially autonomous from britain. Canada actually waited 2 weeks after britain before declaring war on germany. However connections still ran deep.

Would the royal family have attempted to flee to either one of these countries? Assuming this happens in 1940 before the US is officially in the war, would these two countries attempt a counter invasion to aid GB themselves?
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Old October 5th, 2012, 06:14 AM   #2
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Might be better for alternative history. Think those countries would continue to operate independently. Don't think they would launch a counterinvasion independently, but ally with one from other powers.

Situation in India and elsewhere in the empire might be chaotic, as groups might declare independence, there might be conflicts between religious and ethnic groups, and Germans, Japanese, and other powers might try to take over.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 01:03 PM   #3

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Canada moves safely into the USAs orbit.

Australia is safe from Germany, and has its whole army to protect itself from Japan. Japan is at the end of a VERY long supply line if it wants Australia's population centers and Australia would have something like half a million troops I would imagine.

In the long term Australia would also ally with the USA (as it has now).

But what about my people in New Zealand?
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Old October 5th, 2012, 01:36 PM   #4

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I believe there were contingency plans made for this eventuality. The Royal Family and key government and military personnel were to be evacuated to Canada to maintain the British government, along with gold reserves and important documents. (Wasn't the Magna Carta sent to the US for safekeeping?)

In any case, in the unlikely event of Britain formally surrendering to Germany the Commonwealth would have gone on fighting as allies of the USA, with the possible exception of India which may have fallen into the Japanese camp. The eventual outcome would have been the same, although it would have taken longer and we may have seen the use of nuclear weapons in Europe as well as Japan
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Old October 5th, 2012, 01:53 PM   #5

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Yes, there were such plans for evacuation to Canada which would have included most of the government and whatever components of the fleet that remained. Churchill was determined to stay however and even drew up fanciful plans how he and other portly politicians and civil servants would man machine guns around Downing Street and the Palace of Westminster.
The evacuation of the Royal Family was actually rehearsed at least once with a special train taking them to Madresfield Court in Malvern, Worcester and Pitchford Hall in Shropshire where other exiled monarchs would join them. Britain was well set up for armed resistance to a German Invasion and a subsequent guerilla war with an "underground" government and army already organised, so instant evacuation out of the country was not thought advisable for morale purposes. The Queen and the Princesss and the King's Brothers would have left on seperate warships, with the King leaving last of all, some from Liverpool and the King probably from Belfast.
It is highly unlikely that Britain would have surrendered in the manner of France of Belgium. The model was Poland, where even though the military surrendered, the government remained at war.
The Dominions had all declared war on Germany independently and were unlikely to make peace as long as there was the chance of the USA joining the war.

Last edited by Ancientgeezer; October 5th, 2012 at 01:59 PM.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 02:59 PM   #6
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Hmm, I could see Canada accepting the royal family and the king as he would have been the king of canada as well in all technicality. I'm not so sure about how willing they would be letting the actual british government operate within their own country however?
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Old October 5th, 2012, 03:02 PM   #7

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgarion View Post
I believe there were contingency plans made for this eventuality. The Royal Family and key government and military personnel were to be evacuated to Canada to maintain the British government, along with gold reserves and important documents. (Wasn't the Magna Carta sent to the US for safekeeping?)

In any case, in the unlikely event of Britain formally surrendering to Germany the Commonwealth would have gone on fighting as allies of the USA, with the possible exception of India which may have fallen into the Japanese camp. The eventual outcome would have been the same, although it would have taken longer and we may have seen the use of nuclear weapons in Europe as well as Japan
My possitive impression over the result of the war is like this. However, there is a possiblity that U.S. shall be the next country to be invaded after the U.K. It must be noted that the best American fighter plane during WW2 was equipped with British engine.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 04:42 PM   #8

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Difficult to answer because you have not included the possibility of America entering the fight at that time. America's interests were in the Pacific and with Britain out of the fight America would have extremely long lines of supply and communication to deal with.
Therefore the responses of Australia/NewZealand would have been different to those of Canada. Equally you have made no mention of Japan.
If there was no Japanese threat then Britain might well have drawn it's Empire troops back to defend the homeland. The Japanese threat meant that Australia was involved more deeply in the Pacific War.
So we need a clearer view of the world you had in mind in 1940.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 05:30 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by viking View Post
Difficult to answer because you have not included the possibility of America entering the fight at that time. America's interests were in the Pacific and with Britain out of the fight America would have extremely long lines of supply and communication to deal with.
Therefore the responses of Australia/NewZealand would have been different to those of Canada. Equally you have made no mention of Japan.
If there was no Japanese threat then Britain might well have drawn it's Empire troops back to defend the homeland. The Japanese threat meant that Australia was involved more deeply in the Pacific War.
So we need a clearer view of the world you had in mind in 1940.
I'm assuming from the actual worldview of 1940 in the event that operation sea lion was successful followed by a successful invasion of britain. I'm not sure what the US contingency plan in response to the invasion of britain was?

Part of me wants to say that the US would have likely entered the war but fighting would have been difficult without a base to operate from in britain. As for japan i'm assuming them continuing on their quest for dominance over eastern asia and the pacific.

Last edited by Mitchell Hundred; October 5th, 2012 at 05:37 PM.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 05:44 PM   #10
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As far as the royal family and so on going to Canada. Canada would be difficult to invade as you have to get an army accross the ocean and land it. Plus the country is huge.

Also, the US doesn't necessarily enter the war if Britain is invaded, but almost certainly would if Canada was invaded. The US would might the Germans in Canada rather than let them get to the border.

The royal family and so on could flee accross the long border to the US if Canada fell. This would not be ideal but much better than being captured by the Germans.

Invading the US would probably be more difficult than the invasion of the Soviet Union, so once they get to Canada, they are relatively safe.
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