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Old November 15th, 2012, 02:33 PM   #11

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It's a bit unfair to compare the Greens to the NSDAP, given that their methods were very different and the consequences of being against them very, very different.

Defy the Nazis, and the least you can expect is a beating by the SA or a trip inside Dachau. Defy the Greens, and you may be called an eco-Fascist and have leaflets pushed through your letterbox, ad nauseum. You choose

Personally, I prefer BOTH methods to modern British politics: no matter how urgent, cogent, moral or popular your argument, be it left or right, it will be ignored by all political parties if it doesn't fit their (incredibly similar) agenda. This, they call democracy.

In the USSR or Nazi Germany, standing on a soapbox and having a good anti Government rant would result in interesting times. In modern Britain, it results in.......nothing. Media blackout and the same old crap from the Government. Whoever they are.

Oh yes,and I forgot to say: such overtly non-Volkist/Nazi movements in Nazi Germany were almost always accused of being "Socratic" and their leaders usually smeared with accusations of homosexuality and corrupting young people. Dachau had plenty of them: a pink inverted triangle was their badge.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 02:58 PM   #12

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Considering the Rohm and the SA's prime interest in health spas, tight leather shorts and high boots, it was a bit of a case of the Topf calling the kessel Schwartz.

German scoutmaster's proficiency badge.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 03:10 PM   #13

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Nazism was a brioad church, they had factions who supported everything under the sun...and a few who worshipped the sun for good measure.

Theres a Nazi zionist faction and a faction who wanted to exterminate all jews.
Theres a green back to agrarian nature and farming faction and a technologist industrial faction
Theres an animal rights faction who ban fox hunting and an ecology management faction who believe in hunting (Ok thats mostly Goerring who liked hunting anything with a pulse)
Theres a very gay faction who went for all that Leni Reifenstahl aryan bodies and muscled superman faction and theres a catholic family, children and orthodox living faction.

You name it theres somebody in the party promoting it in the belief that Hitler will see it their way and use the party to make a new perfect world and few of them had the sense to realise they were being drawn in and used.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 08:30 AM   #14

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Originally Posted by Black Dog View Post
The foundations of Nazism, remember, were essentially Victorian. In Britain, there was a very real and wistful longing for the past: advertisers used quaint images of country cottages and biscuit tins and other stuff had such scenes on them. Christmas cards showed "cosy" cottages, lit by oil lamps and a roaring fire.

Modernity was not completely embraced without reservation. British poets wrote of the damage industrialisation was doing to the very land and the wealthier Victorians attempted to re-capture (or, at least show an interest in) all things medieval and even the "Celtic Twilight" and the Gothic architecture the Victorians left behind (pig's ear though a lot of it is) show this very clearly.

In Germany, this went a step further, into the realms of "Volkism", an umbrella term for a whole range of movements which were broadly united via their belief in a semi-mythical Germanic past: an agrarian paradise before the "evils" of industrialisation and modernity.

Hitler was, believe it or not, deeply sentimental. During their rise to power and early days in power, the Winter Relief Fund was a charity the Nazis started, whereby Germans were encouraged to eat a simple, one pot meal on a Sunday, instead of a more elaborate meal. The money saved would be donated to the above mentioned fund, to be given to the unemployed and hard up. Of course, many wealthier families had their usual big meal and donated anyway, but Hitler protested that that was wrong: the spirit of the thing was very important.

The Nazis (selectively) rejected modernity, believing Urban living to be "Jewish" with its dependency upon trade, commerce and dealing- and the fact that Jewish people tended to live in large urban centres. All "evils" associated with modernity were associated with Jews: modern art, modern music, modern films.......

To be contrasted with this wishful thinking agrarian past, "Blood and soil": a "pure" Aryan past with no modern "contamination". This was not just propaganda, this was what the Nazis wanted for Germans and those deemed good enough, racially. The rest were to provide the labour for industrialisation, and the Jewish people were not invited at all.

The Nazi propaganda film, "The Eternal Jew" was an extremely clever piece of propaganda. OK, so sometimes it looks a bit comical to us now, but that's hindsight. But in a world already tainted with anti-Semitism than our own, and with no knowledge of what was to come, one can imagine how "The Eternal Jew" would be seen as many as fact and as "revelation", since it passes itself off as "science".

To be contrasted, at all times, by the "hard working, decent, pure blooded and inventive" Germanic peoples.

Flattery of one's own race and pseudo scientific (cold) condemnation of another which was already demonised was rather like shooting fish in a barrel.

Many of the scenes were forced. Famously, the German cameras (in several of the Polish ghettoes after the invasion) were filming a Jewish service, (everyone concerned was forced into it), and the reader of the Torah started his "service" by saying, in Hebrew, "Today is Tuesday". None of the German crew spoke Hebrew and of course the Torah would not be read out loud on a Tuesday.

But the main message of the film was to contrast "human" Germanics with "subhuman" Jews, and then to compare the latter with rats. And then come to the "conclusion" that just as we would not tolerate rats and do not kill them out of hate, so Jews should be removed from German life.

If one watches this odious film and then watches their propaganda films and "Kraft durch Freude" (Strength through joy), the contrast could not be clearer: this was no ordinary war, but a "biological" necessity and the restoration of an entire nation.

Hitler loathed events like Kristallnacht and open demonstrations of hatred. He always attempted to show the way "by reason"- and Goebbels made the film to placate him over the Kristallnacht mess he created. (Kristallnacht was instigated mostly by Goebbels).

Nothing is more insidious than showing "proof" of how superior one race is, and how "subhuman" and different another is. The blonde kids and flowers etc were just one side of the coin. The marches, to show loyalty and good German characteristics, like loyalty, organisational skills and obedience.
Very insightful. Sounds like you have studied tha topic extensively.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 09:01 AM   #15

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Well, I'm an American. That is, I've been steeped in hucksterism from the cradle. I look at all that Riefenstahl stuff and wonder how the Germans could not have been aware that they were being sold a stinking pile of horse dung. I can see how one might have gotten caught up in the moment, as it were. But does one not also wake up the next morning?

Romance? Not in any way shape manner or form.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 10:42 AM   #16

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One sees Thule society mentioned once in a while when reading about Nazis. What was the relationship of nazism (and its romanticism) to Thule society other than the fact that some prominent nazis used to belong to that society?

Last edited by Omar Giggle; November 17th, 2012 at 11:23 AM.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 12:42 PM   #17

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Romantic or not, Adolf was on par with modern rockstars. Women screamed hystericaly as he passed, others fainted, corsets bras and bloomers sailed from the crowd towards his motorcade.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 12:52 PM   #18

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Quote:
Originally Posted by The merchant of Venice View Post
Even today, compare the military parade of regimes like china and any western country, and tell me which one looks more magnificent
The US doesn't show off its army so much as it does the Navy and Air Force. The US is not a land power and as such doesn't put as much emphasis on land power as historical lands powers like Germany, Russia, China, and even France have.

Here in the US there's fleet week and the Blue Angels.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 03:28 PM   #19
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I am inclined to agree with Nebraskan poster, Lucius.But one person who literally embrced Nazism as the basis of her romantic lusting after Adolf Hitler was dotty English aristocrat, Unity Mitfiord , daughter of English nobleman, Lord Redesdale.
Unity went to Nazi rallies, met Adolf, fell in love with him then tried to shoot herself when he, Der Fuehrer, declined to couple with her to fulfil her wish to have Hitler's baby.
Meanwhile Black Dog my favourite Victorian British advertisement was that issuerd by the ''Bovril'' company in 1870 when Pope Pius IX declared that all Roman Catholics must-henceforth- accept Papal Infalibilty on matters of faith and morals as an article of faith.
The ''Bovril'' company in Great Britain promptly ran an advertising campaign in British newspapers in 1870 showing Pope Pius IX sitting on the Papal Throne with a steaming mug of ''Bovril'' in his hand above the caption -''The Two Infallibles-the Pope and ''Bovril''.
But-as for Unity Mitford, she was was kinda loopy. She survived the attempt to shoot herself because Adolf said ''Not tonight Unity!''-to paraphrase ''Napoleon Bonaparte and ''Not tonight Josephine.!'' ...
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Old November 17th, 2012, 03:38 PM   #20

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Dog View Post
Personally, I prefer BOTH methods to modern British politics:
The pity with this statement is that it's a load of crap..and you know it.


Quote:
In the USSR or Nazi Germany, standing on a soapbox and having a good anti Government rant would result in interesting times.
"May you live in interesting times", is an old Chinese curse.
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