Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > European History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

European History European History Forum - Western and Eastern Europe including the British Isles, Scandinavia, Russia


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 9th, 2012, 07:39 AM   #41
Hellenist
 
Joined: Jan 2010
From: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 2,715
Blog Entries: 2

Here is your average German wehmacht soldier. He is you.

athena is offline  
Remove Ads
Old November 9th, 2012, 05:42 PM   #42
Scholar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 620

Atherna your source is deeply flawed ''England'' historically ceased to be a separate political power after May 1st 1707 so England'' had done nothing/m waged no wars or conducted any foreign policy since 1707 when she signed the Treaty of Union with Scotland.
Since then only Great Britain not ''England'' has waged war or built an Empire or conducted a foreign policy.
So you must divest yourself of this silly notion that ''England '' did anything re war and foreign policy/Empire after 1707 when, in fact, England lost all power to so these things on her own-without the co-operation and agreement of her United Kingdom partners Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
Great Britain and England are not the same and never have been Athena ! so wake up and smell the coffee!.
Toomtabard is offline  
Old November 9th, 2012, 06:07 PM   #43
Hellenist
 
Joined: Jan 2010
From: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 2,715
Blog Entries: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toomtabard View Post
Atherna your source is deeply flawed ''England'' historically ceased to be a separate political power after May 1st 1707 so England'' had done nothing/m waged no wars or conducted any foreign policy since 1707 when she signed the Treaty of Union with Scotland.
Since then only Great Britain not ''England'' has waged war or built an Empire or conducted a foreign policy.
So you must divest yourself of this silly notion that ''England '' did anything re war and foreign policy/Empire after 1707 when, in fact, England lost all power to so these things on her own-without the co-operation and agreement of her United Kingdom partners Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
Great Britain and England are not the same and never have been Athena ! so wake up and smell the coffee!.
I might be interested in what you say if you said it respectfully. I have no interest in reading what a disrespectful person says. I was looking for what you had to say about Germany, because of the thread about what interest us. I will stop my search of what you have to say, here, and wait to see if your manner improves.

The 1915 book sitting in lap refers to England. I am quoting from this book and it would be wrong for me use UK when the author speaks of England. Further more, the union does not mean there is no longer an England, Scotland, Ireland. They are united as the United States are united, but did not become non existent. According to my 1972 encyclopedia Scotland occupies the northern third of of Great Britain and England is the largest of the four countries that make up the United Kingdom. So what high school grade are you in?

Last edited by athena; November 9th, 2012 at 06:39 PM.
athena is offline  
Old November 10th, 2012, 04:42 PM   #44
Scholar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 620

Athena -stop talking piffle.-goodbye.!
Toomtabard is offline  
Old November 11th, 2012, 04:28 AM   #45
Citizen
 
Joined: Nov 2009
From: Iowa
Posts: 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by athena View Post
We are facing the possibility of nuclear war and this makes anything in the past seem insignificant. It is not the immediate effects of a nuclear blast that are the most frightening, but the destruction of roads and hospitals, and the huge task of responding to those who survive.

Nuclear War: A Guide To Armageddon Pt.1 - YouTube
I agree. Reasonable, effective military objectives now yield unimaginable death in so many ways.
TheSunGod is offline  
Old November 12th, 2012, 11:31 AM   #46

Kyuu's Avatar
Citizen
 
Joined: Nov 2012
From: Yokosuka Naval Base, Japan
Posts: 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by beorna View Post
And it allowed the US government to open such a place like Guantanamo, Abu Ghraid with torture, it allowed the US government to kidnapp people all over the world, even from allied states, to imprison them without rights, to bring them to syria and egypt to get tortured much brutal, and? any outcry all thru the USA?
There was, then and now, actually a very loud outcry about Guantanamo Bay. This debate continues today, in fact, about whether or not we should shut it down. I doubt that there were such debates in Nazi Germany, if in fact the common Germans even knew about the true nature of the concentration, labor, and death camps.

Also, the men and women that were torturing people at Abu Ghraid were dishonorably discharged after court martial. It was thanks to their fellow service members that the photos and stories were leaked, people who were only bystanders or were shown photos as a 'joke' could not stand by and let it happen. The abusers at Abu Ghraid were not tolerated but by a sick few and they were eventually stopped by their own co-workers, unlike at the concentration camps in Poland and Eastern Europe where thousands worked in tandem to murder millions.

Then again, if you tried to stop an SS officer from beating an inmate in Treblinka, you might be facing a firing squad instead of a court martial.

Now, the military uses these atrocities as examples of the dangers of empathy and 'bystanding', and to supplement lessons on the Law of War and the Geneva Conventions.


... A little off-topic? I'm sorry!


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeroenrottgering
I always wondered how did the average Wehrmacht soldier thought about serving a regime this evil? ... Did the average German soldier fought because he was ordered to and was not evil at heart or did the majority believe in the cause of Adolf Hitler and the Third Reich?
Speaking as an average American soldier, I serve my country because I love it. The sacrifices I've made were because I believe in what the United States stands for. Our army is voluntary. If we disagree with US policy, we don't have to sign up. We can even argue against the direction our country is going in, and find supporters quite easily.

However, in Nazi Germany, there was a very powerful conscription policy, as well as a very effective 'brainwashing' technique in place from a young age. Young boys and girls were trained to listen to the Furher, believe in the Furher, his Germany is bright and beautiful and successful, his Germany is right, these other countries are misled, they are liars, they are controlled by Jews and Bolsheviks, if we do not win we will be wiped out, don't you love your country, don't you want victory for the fatherland?

A fervent support and a mandatory military conscription provided the Furher with a population of soldiers who would be willingly blind if necessary, and it would be easier to squash doubts in that environment. 'Well, he's beating an old woman, that isn't really necessary... but it's for the fatherland, it's better if I just let it be, I am not involved, it's not my business.'

I believe most of Germany was not truly aware of what was happening in Poland and Eastern Europe. There may have been whispers, hints, vague mentionings, but it's easier to ignore those. There have been testimonies of high ranking men, on their first trip to a death camp, becoming physically ill. It's likely that many shied away from the naked truth and went with blind, blissful ignorance rather than face a flaw with the country of theirs that was doing so well at last.

If the United States goes to war with China, I will be involved in the death of thousands. No, my own hands will not be bloodied, but nonetheless people will die because of the work I do. Do I feel guilty? Not at all. If we go to war, if I fail in my duties, it is my family, my mother and father and little siblings in danger. It is my home and my future unborn children at risk. If I am following orders and doing my job and protecting my family, and AFTER the war someone comes and tells me I was wrong, I supported a genocide, I will react in anger and confusion. No, I am a soldier. I was doing what I was told. It is a war, people die.

Then, if it turns out that soldiers and marines were abusing prisoners on the ground, well... Was I one of them? Is it my fault that a few were so depraved? I am not privy to reports and orders from my admiral and such. How would I know all this was occurring? If I heard rumors during the war, I likely dismissed them as propaganda or exaggeration.

There are a million excuses, but the point I'm trying to make is, most common, ordinary, regular joe German soldiers were just fighting for their home against an enemy that had been brought before them as a slavering monster waiting to devour their homes and loved ones. Ignorance is bliss.
Kyuu is offline  
Old November 12th, 2012, 11:51 AM   #47
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: May 2010
From: Rhondda
Posts: 2,964

Quote:
Originally Posted by athena View Post
I might be interested in what you say if you said it respectfully. I have no interest in reading what a disrespectful person says. I was looking for what you had to say about Germany, because of the thread about what interest us. I will stop my search of what you have to say, here, and wait to see if your manner improves.

The 1915 book sitting in lap refers to England. I am quoting from this book and it would be wrong for me use UK when the author speaks of England. Further more, the union does not mean there is no longer an England, Scotland, Ireland. They are united as the United States are united, but did not become non existent. According to my 1972 encyclopedia Scotland occupies the northern third of of Great Britain and England is the largest of the four countries that make up the United Kingdom. So what high school grade are you in?
'England' has no government. Chauvinists back then used 'England' to mean UK because they were mannerless scum. It is not necessary to imitate such people.
Iolo is offline  
Old November 12th, 2012, 01:23 PM   #48

Gudenrath's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: May 2012
From: Denmark
Posts: 2,547
Blog Entries: 1

Frontsoldaten: The German Soldier in World War II: Stephen G. Fritz: 9780813109435: Amazon.com: Books
Frontsoldaten: The German Soldier in World War II: Stephen G. Fritz: 9780813109435: Amazon.com: Books


This book is actually a very good source for this kind of information. No apologism, pure scholarship derived from primary sources. I recommend it highly.

From the blurb:

Quote:
" Alois Dwenger, writing from the front in May of 1942, complained that people forgot "the actions of simple soldiers….I believe that true heroism lies in bearing this dreadful everyday life." In exploring the reality of the Landser, the average German soldier in World War II, through letters, diaries, memoirs, and oral histories, Stephen G. Fritz provides the definitive account of the everyday war of the German front soldier. The personal documents of these soldiers, most from the Russian front, where the majority of German infantrymen saw service, paint a richly textured portrait of the Landser that illustrates the complexity and paradox of his daily life. Although clinging to a self-image as a decent fellow, the German soldier nonetheless committed terrible crimes in the name of National Socialism. When the war was finally over, and his country lay in ruins, the Landser faced a bitter truth: all his exertions and sacrifices had been in the name of a deplorable regime that had committed unprecedented crimes. With chapters on training, images of combat, living conditions, combat stress, the personal sensations of war, the bonds of comradeship, and ideology and motivation, Fritz offers a sense of immediacy and intimacy, revealing war through the eyes of these self-styled "little men." A fascinating look at the day-to-day life of German soldiers, this is a book not about war but about men. It will be vitally important for anyone interested in World War II, German history, or the experiences of common soldiers throughout the world.
Gudenrath is offline  
Old November 19th, 2012, 11:05 AM   #49
Citizen
 
Joined: Nov 2012
From: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 18
Post What was the average German wehrmacht soldiers's view towards serving Nazi-Germany?


I have to agree to the above comments because it would be abselutely wrong to say that every Wehrmacht soldier was a Nazi. I think they were fighting for the extension of the Reich and for the the Führer (Adolf Hitler) but and average soldier would have never fought for the extermination camps in Dachau and so on.
I guess that the soldiers were well aware of the expansionist plans that lay before them but they were not full out Nazis. They protected their country with the gun just like any any of us would do in case of a war. They also went to war to protect their family.
What I can say for instance was that the SS and the special Todestruppe were full out Nazis who went around killing everyone (whether Jew or not).
PinkPanter456 is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > European History

Tags
average, german, nazigermany, serving, soldiers, view, wehrmacht


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Off the Battlefield: The Civilian’s View of Late Roman Soldiers Belloc War and Military History 0 July 22nd, 2012 04:36 PM
A polarising view of how soldiers are viewed in Germany Son of Cathal War and Military History 25 February 19th, 2012 03:23 PM
did the average wehrmacht soldier know the war was lost irishcrusader95 War and Military History 64 August 2nd, 2011 07:29 PM
Strength and weakness of German Wehrmacht (Army), Kriegsmarine (Navy) and Luftwaffe (Air Force) Edward European History 32 December 12th, 2009 11:30 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.