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Old November 12th, 2012, 04:09 PM   #11
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This actually is complete distortion of situation. First of all, state did not prescribed or enforced how couple should share housework. Second state created generous conditions for institutional care for children (crèche, kindergarten, after school care, free time activities -all free or very affordable). State also provided unreturnable loan for household equipment for young couples (washing machines, refrigerators etc.). And last, people in general had much more free time.
IMO, educational system was the only one achievement of Soviet system. This includes also the pre school care.
If we take away the ideological schooling of young children, there still remains relatively good educational system which pay dividends in Soviet scientific development.
I red once a book “The big antagonists” (if I remember correctly the title)
There was a good comparison between Soviet conscript soldiers and USA average soldiers. The Americans were far behind their Soviet counterparts in general knowledge and general education.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 08:34 AM   #12

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It would be nice to hear real views from the standpoint of a Russian woman's perspective. I know there are lots of Russian men on the forum not sure any women from Russia are members. Very interesting question though.
As well as the majority of users at forums of this kind are men, it does not matter a country. Women usually have other interests. My daughter learns English. I advised her to create an account at any English-speaking forum of such type to make her English better, but she ignored my advice as such themes do not interest her. Nevertheless there was one Russian woman several months ago at this forum. She was successfully banned here. She spoke too much truth, I suspect.

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Old November 14th, 2012, 08:47 AM   #13

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IMO, educational system was the only one achievement of Soviet system. This includes also the pre school care.
If we take away the ideological schooling of young children, there still remains relatively good educational system which pay dividends in Soviet scientific development.
I red once a book “The big antagonists” (if I remember correctly the title)
There was a good comparison between Soviet conscript soldiers and USA average soldiers. The Americans were far behind their Soviet counterparts in general knowledge and general education.
Yes. Really Soviet educational system there was the best in the world as even you are forced to recognize it. Especially strange, it seems to me the attempts of reforms of our educational system which try to do since 90s our so-called reformers.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 01:46 PM   #14
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Yes. Really Soviet educational system there was the best in the world as even you are forced to recognize it. Especially strange, it seems to me the attempts of reforms of our educational system which try to do since 90s our so-called reformers.
Do you know the word “impartial”? That what I try to be. But it is extremely difficult to be “impartial” in discussion with fanatics.
The phrase “best in the word” was devaluated in Soviet Union. Everything there was “the Best”, “the Biggest”, and so on.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 02:01 PM   #15

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Yes. Really Soviet educational system there was the best in the world as even you are forced to recognize it.
Typical totalitarian state, trying to educate all of its citizens.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 02:09 PM   #16
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Typical totalitarian state, trying to educate all of its citizens.
I think that you are aware of amount of ideological education in Soviet schools? Anyway, what remains apart of ideology was not to bed educational system. But certainly not "the best in the world"
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Old November 14th, 2012, 02:30 PM   #17

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I think that you are aware of amount of ideological education in Soviet schools? Anyway, what remains apart of ideology was not to bed educational system. But certainly not "the best in the world"
Don't you worry, not only I'm fully aware of it, I experienced it myself (contrary to how you only read or imagined about it).

The ideological education was so severe here that by the end of 80s the majority of population perceived USA as our dear friend. While even after 20 years since Cold War ended, average Joe surely knows where Russia place in Evil Axis is

And only now, on part of average Ivan, bitter feeling sometimes comes that communistic propaganda was rather honest at depicting bourgeois society
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Old November 14th, 2012, 02:47 PM   #18
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Don't you worry, not only I'm fully aware of it, I experienced it myself (contrary to how you only read or imagined about it).

The ideological education was so severe here that by the end of 80s the majority of population perceived USA as our dear friend. While even after 20 years since Cold War ended, average Joe surely knows where Russia place in Evil Axis is

And only now, on part of average Ivan, bitter feeling sometimes comes that communistic propaganda was rather honest at depicting bourgeois society
I have experienced it myself in Polish form. It was not much different, I believe.But we knew that it was a propaganda

You know, when I was working in Vietnam 3 years ago, there was a satelite TV dish on every shack in country villages. I wondered haw they could afford this as the poverty was clearly visible?
Than I have learned that the TV dishes have been subsidised by state and TV was used as a main propaganda tool.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 03:18 PM   #19

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OK I am an woman who used to grow up in the Soviet Union, lived there in the time of Perestroika, came here in 1992 and managed to get a second career here, and even have a second child at a ripe age (where are my emoticons? ). So I think I could post something, but in small installments, today is my semi-day off and I have to pick up the kid and drive him to a swimming pool.

My own experience. Education was obligatory, taken for granted, and pretty good. This being said, girls had fewer chances to get into certain schools, in my case, a medical one, unless the schools had traditionally low rate of girls (physics or mathematics. So you had to either have influential parents (my case, although do not make a mistake, I was always a straight A student, everywhere!). Girls could spend two years working as workers, or nurses, and then they had "green light" and were promoted, especially since the smartest of them managed to become members of the Communist Party (an automatic green light, but does not mean that they were devout communists, of course). In medical school, one can get straight A's like I did but it was not enough for "political" promotion unless one was a party member (I was not) or an "informer" to the KGB (sometimes it was diffucult to figure out who it was, but later you can see it by their careers). After school, to get into a residency program, one also had to have influential parents, and/or bribe the heads of the program (forgot to say, that was another typical way to get into the medical or other school). But given the fact that I had good parents, "good" pedigree (not Jewish, relatives were neither repressed during Stalin's time nor repressed anyone else, I shall talk about it later), my chance of advance in medical field was very low because I was not a man. The best way to achieve was to marry a guy "with perspective" and just forget your own ambitions - say, marry a diplomat, go abroad, live there in the embassy being controlled by the KGB of course, do nothing and buy clothes, bring stuff at home, bribe the husband's bosses, sell the rest and eventually buy a good apartment or a good car. (I was pretty, so it would have been the natural way out, except for I did not respect most of these guys). Luckily, I learned English (by listening to the BBC in my sleep, good way, BTW!) and came across a group of professional simultaneous translators. These were people speaking flawless English and having a second, technical, profession, so they knew what they were doing. I was the only doctor among them (forgot to say, I also got a Ph.D. in cell biology) so I was valuable. Plus the youngest one, plus a woman. I was very active, so I got into the group, and at first it was translation at symposia, then simultaneous ones. (Here it is simple, you either can listen and talk at the same time, or you can not. You have to be born with it, I apparently, was). Sorry, I have continue later.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 04:00 PM   #20
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OK I am an woman who used to grow up in the Soviet Union, lived there in the time of Perestroika, came here in 1992 and managed to get a second career here, and even have a second child at a ripe age (where are my emoticons? ). So I think I could post something, but in small installments, today is my semi-day off and I have to pick up the kid and drive him to a swimming pool.

My own experience. Education was obligatory, taken for granted, and pretty good. This being said, girls had fewer chances to get into certain schools, in my case, a medical one, unless the schools had traditionally low rate of girls (physics or mathematics. So you had to either have influential parents (my case, although do not make a mistake, I was always a straight A student, everywhere!). Girls could spend two years working as workers, or nurses, and then they had "green light" and were promoted, especially since the smartest of them managed to become members of the Communist Party (an automatic green light, but does not mean that they were devout communists, of course). In medical school, one can get straight A's like I did but it was not enough for "political" promotion unless one was a party member (I was not) or an "informer" to the KGB (sometimes it was diffucult to figure out who it was, but later you can see it by their careers). After school, to get into a residency program, one also had to have influential parents, and/or bribe the heads of the program (forgot to say, that was another typical way to get into the medical or other school). But given the fact that I had good parents, "good" pedigree (not Jewish, relatives were neither repressed during Stalin's time nor repressed anyone else, I shall talk about it later), my chance of advance in medical field was very low because I was not a man. The best way to achieve was to marry a guy "with perspective" and just forget your own ambitions - say, marry a diplomat, go abroad, live there in the embassy being controlled by the KGB of course, do nothing and buy clothes, bring stuff at home, bribe the husband's bosses, sell the rest and eventually buy a good apartment or a good car. (I was pretty, so it would have been the natural way out, except for I did not respect most of these guys). Luckily, I learned English (by listening to the BBC in my sleep, good way, BTW!) and came across a group of professional simultaneous translators. These were people speaking flawless English and having a second, technical, profession, so they knew what they were doing. I was the only doctor among them (forgot to say, I also got a Ph.D. in cell biology) so I was valuable. Plus the youngest one, plus a woman. I was very active, so I got into the group, and at first it was translation at symposia, then simultaneous ones. (Here it is simple, you either can listen and talk at the same time, or you can not. You have to be born with it, I apparently, was). Sorry, I have continue later.
Excellent post, it is in total agreement with my expierence.
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