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Old November 14th, 2012, 06:54 PM   #21

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Do you know the word “impartial”? That what I try to be. But it is extremely difficult to be “impartial” in discussion with fanatics.
What does a Polish Russia-hater living in Australia to impartiality?

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The phrase “best in the word” was devaluated in Soviet Union. Everything there was “the Best”, “the Biggest”, and so on.


Not everything, but many. For example the system of a professional technical education which now is almost completely destroyed by so called reformers who like monkeys copy all the worst things from the west instead of copying the achievements. As a result, we now have too many lawyers and economists, but we have a lack of qualified turners, fitters, grinders and so on.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 07:13 PM   #22

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I think that you are aware of amount of ideological education in Soviet schools? Anyway, what remains apart of ideology was not to bed educational system. But certainly not "the best in the world"
I think you too exaggerate the role of ideological education in the late USSR. If it would be so strong, the USSR wouldn't be disintegrated.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 07:55 PM   #23

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So to continue, I think it was mostly a post about myself. And I think I dot it very easy, although to earn good money I had to work two jobs. One of them in our hospital (in residency), earning 80 roubles a month, the other one as a translator, earning 200 roubles for half of the day. To compare, my father, an doctor and a professor, earned 500 roubles, and his membership in the academy of medical sciences brought him 250 roubles. Top level. A coal miner got 500 roubles a month, but that was probably the top salary a worker could get in the old-time Russia. But by "cutting the middleman", the "main translator" who would subhire me, I would earn $ 200 per day of simultaneous translations. By the end of my career this is exactly what I was doing, working at the hospital for 80 roubles per day, then paying a colleague 30-40 roubles to take two days off, translating for two days, getting $ 400 dollars, back to the hospital. It is not as much about the women as to explain why we all drifted towards foreigners (those who visited the Soviet Union before, during or after the perestroika, must have noticed it. Most of us were not KGB informers, in fact, they had certain limitations, the rest were attracted by the smell of the dollars! This is why the Soviet Union/Russia fell apart so quickly, and turned into a strange pyramidal system, with Putin at the top, and the foundation made of "oil dollars".
Some things about different generations of women. Horrible casualties of WWII led toa drastic shortage of men in the country. So every man, an alcoholic, a cripple, an idiot, for no use whatsoever, would do. "A bad one, but mine", a typical saying of the times. The families became very unstable, so many women vying for a man, hence totally irresponsible attitude of men towards the kids, which were fully raised by the mothers. Hence women's self-sacrificing attitude, she would work the same hours, without any chance of a promotion, then come home, prepare the meals, clean the house, all alone, check if a kid did his homework. At best, the man would come home sober and watch TV (hockey or soccer). At worst, he would be drunk and beat her up.

Last edited by arkteia; November 14th, 2012 at 09:18 PM.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 09:36 PM   #24

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And in short, woman was the backbone of the society, because men were unavailable, irresponsible or drunk. Many women chose to have children out of wedlock, for themselves, it was never judged, and while the state paid some support, the man often did not. Their level of responsibility was low. One more thing, for a boss to use a woman working for him for sexual favors was common and usually understood. Likewise, it was not judged if that woman advanced her career in such a way. Women in Russia dress more...can't say "provocatively", rather, "appealingly". Although these days I see another trend emerging, to promote a young smart woman without expecting any favors, rather to smoothen gender unequality. I do not know if this trend comes "from above", or is natural.
People of my generation were atheistic, older women, I think, believed. Later many of my friends converted and (they) are now devout Christians.
Perhaps later, if anyone is interested, I shall tell the history of my maternal grandmother. This could be interesting, because she was one of those brainwashed who joined the Party at 16, participated in all novelties of the Soviet Union and shared its delusions, wAsias one of those who "unveiled" women in Central Asia and achieved a decently high level. An interesting example of a nice and very smart woman who shared all delusions of the Party time.

Last edited by arkteia; November 14th, 2012 at 09:51 PM.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 10:02 PM   #25

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BTW, sorry for mistakes and typos, Droid is not the best things for forums, and my laptop gives ominous "DNS server not available" message. It seems to me that Minoan Goddess and Louise are 95% correct. Edward, I have seen some Polish men on similar forums. Usual traits are perfect knowledge of European history and very interesting perception of Russian history. The best example was a very knowledgeable Polish man with whom we rather soon achieved consensus regarding Russia. But then amicably argued about Hitler and Stalin. He felt that Hitler's occupation of Russia would be the end of it, I thought no one could be worse than Stalin. So I understand you, with Polish history, first occupied by Hitler and then "liberated" and made socialistic by Stalin, it is hard to be impartial. Poland did not gain anything from her neighbors.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 10:28 PM   #26
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BTW, sorry for mistakes and typos, Droid is not the best things for forums, and my laptop gives ominous "DNS server not available" message. It seems to me that Minoan Goddess and Louise are 95% correct. Edward, I have seen some Polish men on similar forums. Usual traits are perfect knowledge of European history and very interesting perception of Russian history. The best example was a very knowledgeable Polish man with whom we rather soon achieved consensus regarding Russia. But then amicably argued about Hitler and Stalin. He felt that Hitler's occupation of Russia would be the end of it, I thought no one could be worse than Stalin. So I understand you, with Polish history, first occupied by Hitler and then "liberated" and made socialistic by Stalin, it is hard to be impartial. Poland did not gain anything from her neighbors.
It looks that way. But Poles are much divided in their liking or disliking of Russia(n). I would say that most Poles like Russian individuals, music and art but hate Soviet System intensely. The problem is that Russian takes it personally if somebody dares to criticize Soviet Russia or Stalin. It is almost impossible to bridge this gap. I have two collegaues engineers at my office (married couple, she is from St. Petersburg, he is from Siberia). We are going along very well. So why we can not make any understanding with Russian from Russia??? this is a good question.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 10:52 PM   #27

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This might come from very subjective feelings. For record, roles of women and men inside family were viewed as to some extend different. But that was more result of tradition than state policies. Also it did not mean men were not participating in household and child care. It just meant some division of labour.

What I see as negative is that there was no chance given for women to choose her living style. There was no possibility that woman could stay at home and care about household and children only if she wanted. There also was no way woman could choose how long she will stay at home with newborn baby. Maternity leave was set to half a year if I remember correct. Quit low by today standards.
[QUOTE=Edward;1257659]It looks that way. But Poles are much divided in their liking or disliking of Russia(n). I would say that most Poles like Russian individuals, music and art but hate Soviet System intensely. The problem is that Russian takes it personally if somebody dares to criticize Soviet Russia or Stalin. It is almost impossible to bridge this gap. I have two collegaues engineers at my office (married couple, she is from St. Petersburg, he is from Siberia). We are going along very well. So why we can not make any understanding with Russian from Russia??? this is a good question.[/QUOTE

Viewpoints are shaped by the place of residence. Here, in the USA, I have to be careful discussing stem cell research, even on my FB, and can be totally open about Russia and its history. I am sure Potap does not need to edit his opinion of stem cell research, if he has one. Although Stalin is not a forbidden topic. most people by now understand how bad he was. BTW, I have been to Australia, beautiful country.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 11:29 PM   #28

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Viewpoints are shaped by the place of residence. Here, in the USA, I have to be careful discussing stem cell research, even on my FB, and can be totally open about Russia and its history. I am sure Potap does not need to edit his opinion of stem cell research, if he has one.
Are you implying that Potap has to be careful with putting his personal opinion about Russia/SU?


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A coal miner got 500 roubles a month, but that was probably the top salary a worker could get in the old-time Russia.
In that sense, USSR was state created for workers. If you were willing to work, there were ways to do even more than that. One popular option was to move into polar regions, some were making up to 1'000 rubles per month there.


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The families became very unstable, so many women vying for a man, hence totally irresponsible attitude of men towards the kids, which were fully raised by the mothers.
Which resulted in generations of "a mother's sons", feeble-minded and ill-willed.

Last edited by Putzi; November 15th, 2012 at 01:01 AM.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 12:27 AM   #29
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As for coal miners, there was saying in Czechoslovakia "I am miner, who is more?". They have been paid better than university educated people. They also vent to retirement much earlier than other professions could. Some other physically demanding, potentially health damaging manual professions had this privileged status as well.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 08:02 AM   #30

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It looks that way. But Poles are much divided in their liking or disliking of Russia(n). I would say that most Poles like Russian individuals, music and art but hate Soviet System intensely. The problem is that Russian takes it personally if somebody dares to criticize Soviet Russia or Stalin. It is almost impossible to bridge this gap.
General Winter has created two threads trying to discuss sir Vinston Cherchil crimes. But someone probable takes it personally as both threads were closed. What is the difference between Russians, Britons and Americans in this case?
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