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Old November 18th, 2012, 08:37 AM   #51

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Good evening/morning, Potap. Yes, I "still" can read and write in Russian. Also, I have Russian alphabet on my computer, but your link did not make much sense. Can you post it again, please?
Sorry I cannot understand, what problem do you have with my link? This link works well from my computer. In any case it's not difficultly for me to post this link again. - If there will be a problem again you can find this review having opened this link. газе‚а "”ƒэлŒ" : поли‚ика экономика *оссия поединок ис‚о€ия †ензƒ€а демок€а‚ия бо€Œба об‰ес‚во идея Though I assume probable some western servers cannot read Cyrillic and it is possible instead of the text you get a meaningless set of letters. In this case try to find the review using an other way. Post in GOOLE the Russian phrase Шабалин " Правдюки историии ". It's published in the site of the newspaper "Duel" and some other sites.

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A couple of questions. First of all, would you mind defining "Russian liberal"? Also, is there any difference between "liberal" and "Russian liberal"? In my mind, "liberal" is not a bad word, if it "causes an emetic reflex", how would you define yourself?
I'll start from myself. I can non define myself totally as Russian Eurasian. Do not confuse to Russian nationalist. As nationalism and Eurasianism are absolutely different things. Making more understandable parallel for you, I can assume racism and patriotism are incompatible things in the American society because of multi-racial character of the American society.Though I cannot agree with some things from Eurasianism, their philosophy is close enough to me in any case - Dugin, Gumilev. Dugin was called as nationalist in English-speaking wiki. This is the nonsense. West as usually does not understand Russian philosophy or does not want to understand.

As to liberals and Russian liberals. Russian liberals are the worst form of liberals. There is nothing bad in the word liberal in the western understanding of this word. There are many good things which are protected by liberals: a freedom of speech, democracy, human rights and so on. And the western liberalism does not contradict with love to own country. But the word liberal is almost a curse in Russia. Synonymous with traitor and a scoundrel. I do not know why Russian liberals so much hate own country. Ask them, not me. Dostoevsky has given the good definition to Russian liberals " Наш русский либерал прежде всего лакей и только и смотрит, как бы кому-нибудь сапоги вычистить". " Our Russian liberal first of all is the lackey and just search to clean somebody's boots ". Speaking about Russian liberals we use the word "liberast". Just the quote from Russian Lurkmore:

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Либерасты в отличие от либералов не способны к какой-либо реальной созидательной деятельности. Если либералы еще способны помимо срыва покровов делать какие-то наброски своей идеологии, то вся деятельность либерастов свелась к обличению авторитарных и тоталитарных режимов, при этом в своих узких кругах у них царит еще более махровый тоталитаризм.
"Liberasts unlike liberals are unable to any real creative work. While liberals are still able except of disrupting the covers to do some outlines of their ideology, the whole activity of liberasts is reduced to denouncing of authoritarian and totalitarian regimes, while in their own narrow environment rules even more rabid totalitarianism."
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How many people were killed by Stalin, per your guestimate?
First of all I'm not the professional historian who is engaged in estimations of his victims. So I cannot have my own estimations. There are many professional historians who do these estimations using statistics and contemporary archival records. I say here about about unreal estimations which simply are not comparable to dynamics of Soviet demography. As to figures. There are many historians which name different figures, but nobody operates with tens millions, except of ideological chatterboxes of course.
Many figures you can find on the site of the organization "Memorial". I hope you know there are no Stalin's fans in this organization. Nevertheless even they do not use tens millions. "Memorial" names the figure a bit more than one million persons who was shot during the period since 1921 to 1953. But this figure includes political and ordinary criminals. Historian Pyhalov referring to the letter to Khrushchev from February, 1, 1954 speaks about 642.980 persons who was shot according to political reasons. You can find detailed statistics on this link.

P.S. If you will have a problem with my link again. You can find it in GOOGLE using the phrase Игорь Пыхалов "Каковы масштабы сталинских репрессий?

Last edited by Potap; November 18th, 2012 at 08:52 AM.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 10:53 AM   #52

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That's curious, we have a similar situation in Spain.

Liberal is a bad word: in politics and economics they are related to what Americans know as neo-cons. Socially, people used to name "liberal" to girls that had "too much" sexual relations.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 02:10 PM   #53
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[QUOTE=Putzi;1258674]Self-censorship might be rather commonplace in American society, but you're grasping at straws when trying to apply such explanation to me or Potap or any other Russian among these boards (not so many of them are still left here, though).

Russian society avoids political correctness in general so far, and I surely hope this concept will never find too much of solid ground here.
QUOTE]

Potap, look at my post 36. The western political correctness is related mostly to religious, racial and sexual orientation issues, not political or historian matters.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 02:19 PM   #54
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It's very nice for you, as the unwillingness to know the truth is the subject of your pride. Though I can understand you of course. It is very comfortable to live in a world where everything is classified. Stalin is the evil beech, Churchill is the pretty nice guy. What's the reason to change something? Additional knowledge leads to dissent. Doesn't it? So do not speak about impartiality in this case. Ok?!
You are wrong, Potap. Churchill is not untouchable. Read this book for example. It was printed in England.
What you call additional knowledge, in my parlance I call it propaganda as it has no historical basis at all.
Cuurchill was not a saint, he made mistakes but do not compare him to Stalin if you want to have any credibility hire.

"Blood, Sweat and Arrogance, and the Myths of Churchill War"

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by Edward; November 18th, 2012 at 02:29 PM.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 01:34 AM   #55

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Old November 19th, 2012, 05:45 AM   #56

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Originally Posted by Frank81 View Post
That's curious, we have a similar situation in Spain.

Liberal is a bad word.
No wonder : liberalism is very closed to fascism. You see,fascism leads up to a logic finish a liberal idea of competition.Fascism grows up from the idea of competition and supression of one by another, only it sees it at the level of races,not at the level of individuals. That is fascism is hypertrophied liberalism.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 06:42 AM   #57

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That's curious, we have a similar situation in Spain.

Liberal is a bad word: in politics and economics they are related to what Americans know as neo-cons. Socially, people used to name "liberal" to girls that had "too much" sexual relations.
Russian writer, satirist Saltykov-Shchedrin at 1876 in his satire, "Well mannered People" describes the ideas of Russian liberal:
"I was sitting at home and, as usual, I did not know what to do. What do I want? I needed something, either I needed a constitution, or I needed a sturgeon with mayonnaise, or I needed to rob somebody. To rob for the beginning, an idea flashed in my head, to rob and lay low. Then, having established myself as well-intentioned person, I'll can dream about constitutions at leisure . "

Excuse me for my lame translation.

Last edited by Potap; November 19th, 2012 at 07:09 AM.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 06:44 AM   #58

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You are wrong, Potap. Churchill is not untouchable. Read this book for example. It was printed in England.
What you call additional knowledge, in my parlance I call it propaganda as it has no historical basis at all.
Cuurchill was not a saint, he made mistakes but do not compare him to Stalin if you want to have any credibility hire.

"Blood, Sweat and Arrogance, and the Myths of Churchill War"

Click the image to open in full size.
First of all Churchill is just the example. We can note other politicians or events which are not exposed to an impartial estimation. While a certain part of politicians and events are exposed to total defamation.
The second I do not speak about propaganda, I speak about knowledge. Propaganda is very much often based on idle talk instead of knowledge. Propaganda also likes to make labels. Is everyone who speaks about inability to kill 60 millions in the country with population 150 millions a communist? So the knowledge helps to resist to propaganda.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 07:03 AM   #59

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Perhaps later, if anyone is interested, I shall tell the history of my maternal grandmother. This could be interesting, because she was one of those brainwashed who joined the Party at 16, participated in all novelties of the Soviet Union and shared its delusions, wAsias one of those who "unveiled" women in Central Asia and achieved a decently high level. An interesting example of a nice and very smart woman who shared all delusions of the Party time.
I'd be very interested if you feel like sharing the story. This was a book I couldn't put down: "Till My Tale is Told" (ed. S.Vilenski). I feel great respect for the women whose stories are described there.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 07:05 AM   #60

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You are right. The subject of this thread is feminism in the USSR.
Coming back to the subject. Nobody have noted that women in Russia - USSR had the right to vote since April, 15 1917. While British Empire, for example, have made equal rights for women and men just at 1928.
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