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Old November 20th, 2012, 01:05 PM   #81
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I agree with everything you say here. The unfortunate Pussies are a godsend to the current Russian government - among all the good things Western democracy has to offer they've chosen to absorb the most idiotic. They make Mr. Putin look sensible in comparison.

On the other hand, if I were Russian the absurd harshness of the punishment would also make me protest. All reaction their behaviour merited was shrugging one's shoulders.
There is a misconception. Judging from your post I cannot say for sure do you have it, so if you understand the thing I'm about to say then good for you. Indeed, the ideology of Pussy Riot stems from feminist philosophy of far-left that was quite popular in the USSR in 1920s, when naked men and women would march on the Red square holding up placard: "Shame no more". The only thing they have in common with liberals is a respect for sexual identity of people. The members of Pussy Riot are not liberals.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 06:36 PM   #82

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Has it ever occurred to you that Pussy Riot are not liberals but extreme feminists and a tad of Bolsheviks. But the people who came out in their support are liberals with conscience who couldn't silently watch them being unlawfully persecuted?
This is the main problem of our liberals. They do not forget to protect dancing whores in churches, but always forget to protect ordinary people, like they have forgotten to protect 300 thousands Russian who have undergone to a genocide in Dudaev's Chechnya, for example. It is understandable. Here one cannot make any political capital.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 06:40 PM   #83

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Yes, Russia experienced a devious whiff of liberalism in 90s. But the only truly liberal thing in that time was the Constitution. Indeed, it was well-written, but it has never worked in Russia and the constitution is constantly abused by the authorities. I can tell you that none of Russian economical reforms in 90s was liberal.
Indeed Gaidar, Nemtsov, Chubais and others did not call themselves liberals?
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Old November 20th, 2012, 11:51 PM   #84

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like they have forgotten to protect 300 thousands Russian who have undergone to a genocide in Dudaev's Chechnya, for example.
Which is unknown to anyone but a couple Russian xenophobic web sites.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 02:29 AM   #85

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There is a misconception. Judging from your post I cannot say for sure do you have it, so if you understand the thing I'm about to say then good for you. Indeed, the ideology of Pussy Riot stems from feminist philosophy of far-left that was quite popular in the USSR in 1920s, when naked men and women would march on the Red square holding up placard: "Shame no more". The only thing they have in common with liberals is a respect for sexual identity of people. The members of Pussy Riot are not liberals.
I wasn't quite aware of the historical background, thank you. I haven't been following the Pussy riot issue very closely, but what I've seen these girls just copied the usual foolish "happenings" that have unfortunately been part of Western mainstream culture for years. Christianity is usually the prime target, somehow these "daring and controversial" artists never even touch Islam (guess why).

Actually, this links up with the Bolshevik anti-religious campaign, only the Western left has followed Antonio Gramsci, not Lenin. They've found a cultural offensive far more effective than physically exterminating priests and practicing Christians.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:29 AM   #86
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Actually, the thing that worries me most and that I do not like about the so called Western world is very deeply rooted hipocrisy. Take Poland for example - one might have an impression that before the transformation of early 1990s an ordinary citizen had more strongly accentuated right of free speech than it is today. Living in Poland in the 1980s I could talk about any political matters without any serious consequences. Last year I registered on one of Polish historical forums (historycy.org) and wrote a few posts in which I spoke warmly and nostalgically about my young years spent in a communistic country. As a result I was literally lynched and banned from the forum. That leads me to a conclusion that in contemporary so called democracies a right of free speech is to a great extent fictional. It's true it is located among constitutional guarantees and belongs to the catalogue of political rights, but in fact an ordinary citizen is not very likely to make use of his right fearing almost certain social stigma connected with certain so to say "prohibited" views.

To sum up, from my experience communist Poland was far more likeable and friendly place to live than today's liberal democracy that strongly prohibits any positive feelings about our communistic past.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 06:45 AM   #87

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Actually, the thing that worries me most and that I do not like about the so called Western world is very deeply rooted hipocrisy. Take Poland for example - one might have an impression that before the transformation of early 1990s an ordinary citizen had more strongly accentuated right of free speech than it is today. Living in Poland in the 1980s I could talk about any political matters without any serious consequences. Last year I registered on one of Polish historical forums (historycy.org) and wrote a few posts in which I spoke warmly and nostalgically about my young years spent in a communistic country. As a result I was literally lynched and banned from the forum. That leads me to a conclusion that in contemporary so called democracies a right of free speech is to a great extent fictional. It's true it is located among constitutional guarantees and belongs to the catalogue of political rights, but in fact an ordinary citizen is not very likely to make use of his right fearing almost certain social stigma connected with certain so to say "prohibited" views.

To sum up, from my experience communist Poland was far more likeable and friendly place to live than today's liberal democracy that strongly prohibits any positive feelings about our communistic past.
Salut Dorothea, where are you based if I may ask? Cause it can't be Poland, you know. If you were really writing from here you'd know there's a wide range of Polish forums, representing all possible views from radical left to radical right where people can squabble to their hearts content. And I've never seen anyone hounded out of town for expressing nostalgia about communism.

On the other hand, locating the place where the phrase "Western hypocricy" was coined takes only a second

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Old November 21st, 2012, 08:46 PM   #88
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@antonina - I think you must be joking. Contemporary Poland is the most intolerant country I know, especially if we speak about their attitude to the communistic past of the country. For example several years ago Polish parliament passed a bill that prohibited using any kind of symbols and depictions associated with communism. As a result of the new ridiculous law many people were arrested and had severe legal problems - including undergoing criminal prosecutions - for such meaningless acts as e.g. wearing a T-shirt with hammer and sickle logo or putting such a logo as avatar on the forum (my case).

After the catastrophe of Polish AirForceOne in Smolensk in April 2010 the xenophobic and paranoid atmosphere began to be particularly dense. Especially Russians cannot feel safe there. So please do not try to tell me that you can freely express your views in Poland, because it's just plain untrue. Your possible staying by your claim will make me think you are not based in Poland, but maybe somewhere on the Moon, totally detached from reality

And this is sad, because Poland would have ceased to exist if it hadn't been liberated in 1945 by the Red Army, so a little respect and gratitude towards eastern neighbour would be strongly recommended. Not to mention it is thanks to Soviet Union Poles had excellent opportunities of development and transforming into a modern and educated society - opportunities that they failed to make use of. I am speaking also about the reproductive rights and the general position of women.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 08:51 PM   #89

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Which is unknown to anyone but a couple Russian xenophobic web sites.
And many thousands ethnic Russians who have left the tolerant Chechnya at 1992-94s.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 09:14 PM   #90

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And many thousands ethnic Russians who have left the tolerant Chechnya at 1992-94s.
So do those two sites claim.
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