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Old November 20th, 2012, 11:42 PM   #11
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Yes You are right. PIE is Pre Indo European (and not Proto Indo European)
OK, thanks Diviacus
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 05:27 AM   #12
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First of all you have to know, their was no such thing as France before the revolution. If you asked someone from Bretagne what he was, French would most likely come at fifth place or so, if it came on the list at all. The Bourbons saw no need in making A France. Cause nationalism could very well undermine their power. So that was why their was a lack of unifying these areas in one France. Which they were politically, but certainly not culturally. This changed during the revolution when the revolutionary leaders needed a unified to face several European powers. In some areas this lead to revolt. Think of the Vendee, but also in Provence and other areas. And still during and after the revolution France was not a whole. Only at the end of the 19th century all people in France mastered the French from Paris. Cultures remained and France started to really unify as one people under the propaganda of the third Republic.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 02:38 PM   #13

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How about the Cagots? Why were they treated so badly? Even after the revolution, they were not allowed to join the military, not allowed to enter many churches and nobody wanted to marry them.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 05:32 PM   #14

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PIE stands for Proto-Indo-European; either the noun or the adjective.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 06:31 AM   #15
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Is there any clear and plausible explanation for the origins of the Cagots - I think there was an ethnic difference.
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Old November 28th, 2012, 08:54 PM   #16

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The Bourbons saw no need in making A France. Cause nationalism could very well undermine their power. So that was why their was a lack of unifying these areas in one France. Which they were politically, but certainly not culturally.
Absolutely not. I apologise for phrasing it in such brusque terms, but that is complete rubbish - it was in fact the opposite.

Louis XIV coordinated his policies to effectively centralize power not only politically but culturally, and that included patois and such. He didn't succeed, obviously, but with theories of national collective memories, we often extend back to much of his work to form a base, if not a continuum (or rather a growth) from perhaps earlier times.

I can't find the monograph that dealt with Louis and local languages, but I'll try to do that soon - it was either in French or English, but obviously a work done a few years ago.

A rather early article that's stuck with me for some time was one in FHS on Louis' centralization of music: JSTOR It's worth a read, I think.
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Old November 29th, 2012, 11:59 AM   #17

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The Bourbons saw no need in making A France. Cause nationalism could very well undermine their power. So that was why their was a lack of unifying these areas in one France. Which they were politically, but certainly not culturally.
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Absolutely not. I apologise for phrasing it in such brusque terms, but that is complete rubbish - it was in fact the opposite.
Fourteen, I agree with you. Louis XIII and Louis XIV made all efforts to impose the French language.
Louis XIII created the Académie Française, and Louis XIV imposed the French language in public acts in Flandre (1684), Alsace (1685) and Roussillon (1700).
Even if they failed, they suceeded at least in the upper part of the society.
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Old November 29th, 2012, 12:01 PM   #18

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Speaking of the French language and it's dialects, what is this I have been hearing about Marseille French being the best, or purest?
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Old November 29th, 2012, 12:06 PM   #19

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Speaking of the French language and it's dialects, what is this I have been hearing about Marseille French being the best, or purest?
It's the first time I hear that !
What is said is that the "Tourangeau" -language of Touraine- is the purest (and I am not from this region ).
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Old November 29th, 2012, 12:26 PM   #20

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It's the first time I hear that !
What is said is that the "Tourangeau" -language of Touraine- is the purest (and I am not from this region ).
I was talking with someone who is spending a lot of money to import a French tutor from Marseilles because supposedly it is the best French. Never heard of it before myself but it sounds like a great scam for people from Marseilles looking for tutoring jobs
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