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Old November 19th, 2012, 10:32 PM   #1
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Were Kipchaks white, Mongoloid or like modern Kazakhs? where exterminated by Kazakhs?


Their origins is all very confusing to me but someone should at least know happened to them. What the heck happened to them? they used be everywhere from Europe to North/West Kazakhstan now they just seem to have disappeared without a trace. Were these Kypchaks white or were they already a mixture of white/mongoloid like modern Kazakhs?

From the descriptions they Kypchaks sounds very white and East European looking.

"It is to no surprise that while the general view of the Cumans is that they are Turanid, many historic sources describe the Cumans as strikingly handsome physically, having blond or red hair, and blue eyes. Many researchers also believe that Kipchaks were blonds and blue-eyed, descended from the Dingling, who lived in the steppes of Southern Siberia in the end of the 1st millennium BC, and who were, according to the Chinese chroniclers, blonds.[3] Kipchaks presented themselves to Russians, Poles, Germans, Hungarians, Italians and Armenians as blond people, and consequently these peoples named Kipchaks in their languages fair."


They inhabited what is now Cumania, they inhabited a very large chunk of Kazakhstan and from their they conquered Southern Russia, Romania, Modolva, Ukraine, Crimea, North Caucasus.


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A large part of their population population used to inhabit what was now northern Kazakhstan but it was later conquered by the Kazakh Khanates.

Kazakh Khanate ( 1456–1847 )
under Kasym Khan


" During the reign of Kasym Khan, the territories of the Kazakh Khanate expanded considerably. As Mirza Muhammad Haidar Dughlat later wrote in his Tarikh-i-Rashidi, "Kasym Khan now brought the Dasht-i-Kipchak under his absolute control, in a manner that no one, with the exception of Jochi, had ever done before. "


Click the image to open in full size.


Modern day Kazakhstan (where the Kypchaks today? did they became Kazakh or were the exterminated?)
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Last edited by KingButler; November 19th, 2012 at 10:47 PM.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 09:10 AM   #2

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Have you got your dates right? The 1st map says 1200 AD. But you say in your essay that the Kipchaks lived at the end of the 1st millennium BC. That would be 100 BC. That is quite a time span. I was under the impression that there was no historical record from the steppes area in 100 BC. The Alans lived in the area north of the Black sea all the way to north of the Caspian sea from 100 BC until the Huns attacked in 375 AD. Their civilization was destroyed and they fled into western Europe. They were described by the Greek historians as fair skinned with blond hair and blue eyes. The origin of the blond hair and blue eyed people is from the northwest coast of the Black sea. They have been traced to there by genetic scientists. These Kipchaks may be another people that originated at the Black sea and maybe around 1000 BC or earlier had moved far to the northeast. This is speculation, but if they were blond and blue eyed, that is where they must have come from. From the large time span you are talking about, there would be no chance of them surviving 1300 years of interbreeding.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 10:27 AM   #3
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Wikipedia says the Kipchak Khanate ruled Eastern Europe for 150 years. The last remains were the Tatar Crimean Khanate which survived till the 18th century, before it was absorbed into the Russian Empire.

This Kipchak Stone Baba displays 50% White and 50% Mongoloid facial characteristics.

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The Kipchaks were known as Polovtsy in some parts of Europe and modern day Russia has a large population of Tatar speaking people.

Marat Safin is one of them and is a member of the Russian Parliament from Vladimir Putin's Party.

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I think he looks 100% White.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 12:58 PM   #4

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A bit off topic, but the well-known orchestra selection "The Polovtsian Dances", was a piece of music which was inspired by Tatar culture. (Chemist/Musician Alexander Borodin was the composer.)

Thanks to Russian high culture the Kipchaks, or Cumans, or Polovsti, are immortalized in a manner that most other steppe cultures don't enjoy.

Perhaps one of the forum experts on Central Europe will add more regarding settlement of Cumans into the plains of Hungary.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 01:50 PM   #6

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There was a Kipchak confederation already in 900AD, which later incorporated the Cumans around 1000AD. The Cumans had come from the eastern regions of modern-day China, thus their appearance is more likely to have been Mongoloid than Caucasoid. The Kipchaks could have been described as blond, redheaded and blue-eyed before the Cuman arrival, which is when the two people interbred to create a mixed Mongoloid-Caucasoid people. This would go along with Jhangora's theory that the 12th Century Kipchak Stone Baba depicts a 50% Mongoloid, 50% Caucasoid person.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:57 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhangora View Post
Wikipedia says the Kipchak Khanate ruled Eastern Europe for 150 years. The last remains were the Tatar Crimean Khanate which survived till the 18th century, before it was absorbed into the Russian Empire.
Tatars are Turkic people and Kipchaks are Turkic too if I remember right.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 05:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farinal View Post
Tatars are Turkic people and Kipchaks are Turkic too if I remember right.
That is right Farinal. According to Wikipedia there are about 6.8 million Tatars and 5.5 million out of them live in present day Russia.

The Kipchak languages are spoken by over twelve million people and cover China to Lithuania.

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Old November 21st, 2012, 06:12 PM   #9

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Kipchaks were one of the many "steppe nomads" and may appear in sources with other names - cumans, polovtsi. These people eventually were absorbed into other cultures (largely Slavs). Bulgars were probably the most successful "steppe nomads" that assimilated with slavs in the area of Bulgaria and remained the elite of that new society that was able to challenge Byzantium for hegemony over the Balkans for a few centuries. Avars lasted only a couple of centuries until their power was broken by the Franks and a century later their lands occupied by the Magyars. Pehaps the Croatians were kin of the Kipchaks? Cumans, Pechenegs and others were largely assimilated with peoples that now make up Russia, Ukraine, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary. Mongols and Tartars were the last of the migratory/warring nations of the steppes.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 07:20 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Temujin View Post
There was a Kipchak confederation already in 900AD, which later incorporated the Cumans around 1000AD. The Cumans had come from the eastern regions of modern-day China, thus their appearance is more likely to have been Mongoloid than Caucasoid.

Indeed originally the two were separate peoples but by the 12-13th century the two names Kipchak and Cuman became synonymous as the original two peoples mixed with each other so extensively. But there is an opinion that the self name of the Cumans, "Cun" itself means pale so the exonyms like polovci, xartesh, falben (and their variations) which also mean pale were just the translation of it.

but imo it does not necessarily refer to their race just like other color names found in among Turkic names like ak, kara, shari doesn't mean racial classification.

Anyways this is the reconstructed face of a Cuman warrior from a Hungarian tomb:

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