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Old December 5th, 2012, 07:39 PM   #141

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Originally Posted by antonina View Post
You mean the one called "Powiest Wriemmienych Liet", from early 12th century? It was called Kronika Nestora in Polish historiography

That's where the claim about Rurik being invited to "introduce order" was made, wasn't it? But it was written 250 years after the events described. In fact the Eastern Slav tribes had introduced order and got themselves organised well before the Varegs arrived.
Thanks Wiki, now you can tell a few words about "Nestor's chronicle".

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No, we all come from one Slav root Bro.

The dirty trick being? Is everyone obliged to accept the theory of "Russia stemming from Kievan Rus" without question? It has been questioned and is being questioned by historians.
By whom is questioned? There are many different historians and pseudo-historians. I love Jury Petuhov for example. He has written great work in two volumes - " The History of ancient Rus from 40,000 year B.C". He tells how Rus have left Africa 40000 years ago and spreading around the world created the Egyptian civilization, Sumer, Babylon and so on. Then they have settled in Europe and have created all around here. I can give you the link, you'll can enjoy. Under the condition of good understanding Russian language of course. Click the image to open in full size.


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Nor am I. Mentioned it only in connection with your absurd "hate" allegations.
You keep making them because I write about extermination of Poles by the Soviet Politburo, and this - in your strange book - qualifies as "hate". That's rather turning or twisting the tables, don't you think?

As far as I remember it was you who a while back expressed approval for shooting unarmed prisoners of war in the back of the skull - you even said you'd have done the same. Just remembered I was supposed to have stopped talking to you after that, it slipped my mind
I repeat, I am not going to discuss Katyn on this thread. You continue to bother me with Katyn. I repeat to you again I can recollect many Polish crimes against Russian. Much more than you think. And I repeat again I'd shot your officers in Katyn too. Your resentment is funny. Before to grow roots to these words, you ought to ask - why?

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A test or what?
I just want to listen to the fairy tale about Moscow Ulus of "Golden Horde" and about Russian dukes which wore Muslim turbans and prayed in mosques.

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By the way, I thought you and the Russian bunch might enjoy this. Nice pictures and quite unique. www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-17449958
Thanks for the picture "404 - Page Not Found". I did not see such beautiful pictures for a long time already.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 07:55 PM   #142

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I tend towards the view that the Rus were a mixture of Slavs and Vikings, and overtime the Slavic element became more predominant.
But isn't it what Primary Chronicle says? When you simplify it of course. According to other sources, Byzantine or Frankish, at last part of what they called Rus were composed of Scandinavians. Archaeology around Novgorod also seems to confirm Scandinavian presence. So I think we can quit safely assume that Scandinavians did take part in Rusian ethnogenesis (just like Fins). If it was exactly how Primary Chronicle describe it or not can be subject of some doubt but at last it is grounded is some reality.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 08:02 PM   #143

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But isn't it what Primary Chronicle says?
From my reading, it seems the Rus are considered distinct from the Slavs. It even declares that Novgorod, which used to be Slavic is now descendents of the Rus. Now why is the Norse element given such predominant in the Primary Chronicle? I really don't know, but I know there's been plenty of debate as to why that is. The Viking presence hasn't seem to have a real lasting legacy like it did in other parts of Europe like Normandy, Sicily, or England.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 08:12 PM   #144

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Has Russia denied Ukranian and Belorussian descent from Kievan Rus? Saying that all three of them are descended from Kievan Rus seems a poor reason to justify dominating them.
Russians consider Ukrainians and Bielorusians part of single Russian nation. Ukrainians used and sometimes still are called Small Russian, Bielorusia means White Russia and what you know as Russia today was called Greater Russia.

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Regarding Russia being the Third Rome... What were Kievan Rus relations like with the Byzantines before they fell? Did they have strong connections throughout, or did they just try and claim them after Constantinople fell?
There were intermarriages, Russians accepted Christianity from Byzantines and they fought few wars. If I remember right, Russians attacked Constantinople twice. They were also allied at times, Russians helped Byzantines fight Bulgars for example. There was strong religious and cultural connection (you can see it in architecture) and some Russian rulers were descendants of Byzantine emperors on maternal line.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 08:20 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Mosquito View Post
He does and he is disgusted with Antonina's post. He suggest Antonina to read works of this author:

Tadeusz Sulimirski - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Ossetians claim they are true descendants of the Samaritans. They speak an iranic language like the samaritans and claim they moved from the steppe to the caucasus.

http://www.pcgn.org.uk/Georgia%20-%2...etia-Jan07.pdf

Ossetians - WHO WERE THE SARMATIANS?

From Sarmatia to Alania to Ossetia: The Land of the Iron People Europe Places GeoCurrents

The Ossetians

Who are the Ossetians?

Last edited by deke; December 5th, 2012 at 08:47 PM.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 08:21 PM   #146

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From my reading, it seems the Rus are considered distinct from the Slavs. It even declares that Novgorod, which used to be Slavic is now descendents of the Rus. Now why is the Norse element given such predominant in the Primary Chronicle? I really don't know, but I know there's been plenty of debate as to why that is. The Viking presence hasn't seem to have a real lasting legacy like it did in other parts of Europe like Normandy, Sicily, or England.
At the time of events, Chronicle describes (means some 2-300 years prior to its writing) Rus were separate from Slavs so Chronicle is correct. Later they assimilated but left their name which was applied over whole country.

You have the same with Bulgarians. They made union with Slavic tribes and over time assimilated, adopting Slavic language, culture ans customs. They left very little of their own culture or language but their name.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 08:44 PM   #147
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Thanks for the picture "404 - Page Not Found". I did not see such beautiful pictures for a long time already.
35+ Creative Design Of 404 Error Page | ThemesCompany

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 09:49 PM   #148

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Originally Posted by Pavel View Post
I remained you that the overwhelming majority of the Ukrainians voted in favor of preserving the USSR.
Ukrainian independence referendum, 1991

For 28,804,071 - 92.3%
Against 2,417,554 - 7.7%
Invalid/blank votes - 670,117

Those 7.7% really looks like an overwhelming majority.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 11:26 PM   #149

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The Ossetians claim they are true descendants of the Samaritans. They speak an iranic language like the samaritans and claim they moved from the steppe to the caucasus.

http://www.pcgn.org.uk/Georgia%20-%2...etia-Jan07.pdf

Ossetians - WHO WERE THE SARMATIANS?

From Sarmatia to Alania to Ossetia: The Land of the Iron People Europe Places GeoCurrents

The Ossetians

Who are the Ossetians?
Samaritans or Sarmartians? They're not the same!
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Old December 5th, 2012, 11:28 PM   #150
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Samaritans or Sarmartians? They're not the same!
I meant sarmatians, that was just a typo.
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