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Old December 5th, 2012, 10:09 AM   #51

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Isn't it time someone started a Darnley Society, like the Richard III Society, to argue that he was really a perfect gentleman who has been the victim of a black legend?
Crystal would be the president.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 10:40 AM   #52

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Now if the rumors about Thomas Seymour popping into see the teenage Princess before she was dressed are true, he must have got the shock of his life.
Well it's always interesting to speculate, and of course the whole world is not heterosexual.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 11:08 AM   #53

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I have just watched a documentary about Elizabeth's close relationship with the Earl of Essex. There were one or two scenes in there that had suggested that the relationship was a sexual one. I did not seem to think its was that close, I think it was a close relationship like mother and son. Elizabeth had treated him like a son and he get a lot of the Robert Dudley, Earl of Leicesters belongings. It had been well noted that Robert Dudley was Queen Elizabeth's lover.
I don't think she regarded him as a son, but neither do I think she had a sexual relationship with Robert Dudley. She was always chaperoned by her ladies and careful to avoid any suggestion of impropriety. She knew the risks of any damage to her reputation.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 11:11 AM   #54

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There's another odd theory that seems to be a favourite of conspiracy fans and documentary makers - Elizabeth actually died of the plague at the age of 10 or 11, in a small village called Bisley. In order to conceal the death from Henry, a substitute had to be found and the only available candidate was a young boy who went on to become Queen Elizabeth I.

Obviously it's a somewhat suspect theory and personally I don't find it convincing but who knows. It's been around a long long time though and Bram Stoker wrote a book on the topic in 1910.

Just thought I'd throw it in the pot
Henry VIII was not the world's best father, but even he would have noticed that his daughter had been replaced by a boy. As would everyone else. It seems unlikely in the extreme that Elizabeth's sister Mary would have kept quiet about it for instance.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 11:25 AM   #55

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Henry VIII was not the world's best father, but even he would have noticed that his daughter had been replaced by a boy. As would everyone else. It seems unlikely in the extreme that Elizabeth's sister Mary would have kept quiet about it for instance.
Yes I agree It's one of the many holes in the story. Not so much the gender switch, but the idea that anybody around Elizabeth could have been fooled by the substitution of another 10-year old whether male or female.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 01:04 PM   #56

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I don't think she regarded him as a son, but neither do I think she had a sexual relationship with Robert Dudley. She was always chaperoned by her ladies and careful to avoid any suggestion of impropriety. She knew the risks of any damage to her reputation.
Agreed. My understanding is that she shamelessly flirted with Essex and he encouraged it - so definitely not a mother/son type relationship. But I think it's unlikely she had a sexual relationship with either him or Dudley.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 06:46 AM   #57

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There is another point to be considered when dicscussing Elizabeth and any possible marriage. Neither Edward or Mary had been able to provide children, we cannot be certain that Elizabth was any more capable. Therefore we have to consider the matter of the succession. In the ecent that her chosen spouse outlives Elizabeth, I am not too sure that `hubby` would have been to chuffed with the idea of James coming down to take the throne.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 08:33 AM   #58

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There is another point to be considered when dicscussing Elizabeth and any possible marriage. Neither Edward or Mary had been able to provide children, we cannot be certain that Elizabth was any more capable. Therefore we have to consider the matter of the succession. In the ecent that her chosen spouse outlives Elizabeth, I am not too sure that `hubby` would have been to chuffed with the idea of James coming down to take the throne.
Edward was only fifteen when he died, and as far as we know had never had an opportunity to try and have children. Mary was in her late thirties when she married, and some women's fertility is in decline by that age. If Elizabeth had married while she was still young, she would very likely have been able to have children. She might still have been able to have them even if she had married later, even in your forties it is not too late, and even if she had married the Duc d' Anjou for instance she might have produced a child.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 08:44 AM   #59

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There is another point to be considered when dicscussing Elizabeth and any possible marriage. Neither Edward or Mary had been able to provide children, we cannot be certain that Elizabth was any more capable.
Well, Edward was only "not able to provide children" because he was dead. He died when he was only 16 and unmarried - we don't really know if he was fertile or not unless maybe there is evidence that he was very sexually active as a teen before he died? But I have heard of no such thing. Even so...

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Therefore we have to consider the matter of the succession. In the ecent that her chosen spouse outlives Elizabeth, I am not too sure that `hubby` would have been to chuffed with the idea of James coming down to take the throne.
Even if Elizabeth was able to have children, there would still always be the risk that she and the baby could die in child birth so this is still a good point and probably something that Elizabeth considered. The influence of the fate of her mother and step mothers has already been pointed out - one of her step mothers having died from childbed fever would probably give her pause when it came to marriage and having children, not for her own sake but for the future and security of her realm.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 12:56 PM   #60

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That's a problem with queens who rule on their own merit, rather than marrying a king: their husbands would, then, naturally be of a higher authority than them. Imagine of Elizabeth had married a commoner and he had outlived her (most likely, back then). Goodbye the real Tudor dynasty and hello new one.

Which happened anyway, and of course the Stuart dynasty went down with Queen Anne, who had loads of pregnancies (17) and none of them outlived her. Queens are, apparently, ten a penny (as wives) but kings were not.
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